NHS managers called in a handwriting expert to track down opponents of transgender-friendly toilets

[OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon]

Haven’t got behind the paywall yet but

Ambulance chiefs trap defacer of unisex signs

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ambulance-chiefs-trap-defacer-of-unisex-signs-rcf0g0xc7

Excluding women in the name of inclusivity. It's The Day Today, isn't it?

'These types of policies will force women out of certain professions. I can't help but wonder if some workplaces have seen this as a great opportunity to make it difficult for women to take on roles.'

I am absolutely certain there will be misogynists at the top of these organisations supporting the changes for that reason.
If you are a bit of a dinosaur it's a win win because it allows you to look woke and modern while actually turning the clock back.

children Yes I know unions will not support women in this situation. But they should not support the use of junk science.

Countess if I was of a tin-foil-hatty turn of mind, I'd think there was a drive to set up a three tier hierarchy - men, Stepford bot- like performers of femininity without the messy bleeding and pregnancy and milk production, and breeding stock.

I normally try to go for cock up rather than conspiracy as my explanation for bad stuff happening in the world, is it's usually the saner explanation, but sometimes the details really do pile up in an uncomfortable way.

It's just bullying isn't it? And Jules Lockett has so little emotional intelligence / self awareness that they actually boast about forcing men and women to share showers and toilets. And boast about using taxpayer's money to mount and investigation into those protesting about this.
The thought of an ambulance worker with no respect for other's boundaries is really frightening.

Well there's an excellent and totally appropriate use of limited NHS funds! Who care about all those people needing operations when there's graffiti to investigate?

Upstartcrow I wasn’t suggested that disabled toilets should be taken away from people with disabilities. I was suggesting that people who want to use gender neutral toilets could use them.

Lockett comes across as an absolutely horrible person. I am guessing what happened is she was playing to the audience at the Gendered Intelligence conference and forgot other people would disagree about some fundamentals and so not be so impressed.

My DOF would have a shit fit if somebody was spending money on a handwriting analyst.

There would be blood on the carpet and teeth in the wall.

Criminal damage?

We have a situation where an employee has pushed through a change which is unpopular and dangerous. They’ve not done any consultation, and applied the change unilaterally. That change is endangering female staff and the company has a culture where any objections raised through proper channels will be used against the person raising them.

That’s not criminal damage - it’s legitimate civil protest.

Y, Babelfish.
The change is also discriminatory because of the disproportionate effect on women and members of religious minorities.

In addition, the service’s emergency operators have been told not to call people “sir” or “madam” and to refrain from using “Mr” or “Mrs” even if 999 callers request it

cf Evening Standard articles re TFL & TRAs:

December 2016
'Mayor Sadiq Khan looks to scrap the words 'ladies and gentlemen' from transport announcements
The Mayor was asked to take action after a transgender woman was ridiculed by transport staff'
(extract)
"London Mayor Sadiq Khan is looking to scrap “ladies and gentlemen” from bus and Tube announcements after a transgender woman claims she was ridiculed by transport staff.

Aimee Challenor, 19, was on the phone to Transport for London’s Oyster helpline when she was told she “didn’t sound like a Miss”.

The gaffe sparked an outcry from the Green Party – who Ms Challenor works for as a spokesperson – who called for the Mayor of London to apologise.

Ms Challenor said she was "in shock" and didn't know how to respond following the comment.

Sadiq Khan apologised for the “inappropriate” remark and said TfL would investigate as well as promising to take action to boost transgender awareness.

He also said TfL could potentially remove the term “ladies and gentlemen” from transport announcements" (continues)
www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/mayor-sadiq-khan-looks-to-scrap-ladies-and-gentlemen-from-transport-announcements-a3416426.html

July 2017
'Transport for London scraps 'ladies and gentlemen' from Tube tannoy announcements in gender-neutral move
'The term 'ladies and gentlemen' is polite but really belongs to yesterday', say campaigners'
(extract)
Bernard Reed OBE, a trustee of the Gender Identity Research and Education Society which aims to improve the lives of trans and gender non-conforming people, welcomed the news.

“GIRES has been supporting TfL's efforts to increase trans awareness among its staff,” said Mr Reed, who this year won an Attitude magazine award with his wife for their lifelong efforts to improve the rights of trans people.

“People have a broad spectrum of gender identities, which could be as a man or as a woman (binary) or in between those identities (non-binary) or as non-gender.

“These diverse identities are increasingly recognised and respected within society.”

A spokesman for charity Stonewall, which champions the rights of lesbian, gay, bi and trans people, also backed the move. He said: “Language is extremely important to the lesbian, gay, bi and trans community, and the way we use it can help ensure all people feel included." (continues)
www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/transport-for-london-scraps-ladies-and-gentlemen-from-tannoy-announcements-in-genderneutral-move-a3586336.html

I wonder if Lockett realises how [insert prounoun here] comes across in that interview. It's positively gleeful about catching the witches.

relevent threads:
current
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3427085-Men-in-gender-neutral-toilets

August 2018
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3337295-DM-Women-avoiding-new-gender-neutral-toilets-in-the-home-office-because-men-cant-close-the-door

September 2018
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3353054-andrew-gilligan-in-the-times-sex-pests-target-unisex-change-rooms

February 2018
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3157790-study-finds-massive-rise-in-sexual-offences-in-target-gender-neutral-changing-rooms

It is a shame. Back in the bad old days you could actually apologise if you misgendered a trans person and you both knew why it had happened. Now you have to be afraid of being screamed at, even if you are at the end of a phone and have no idea what the person looks like.

“People have a broad spectrum of gender identities, which could be as a man or as a woman (binary) or in between those identities (non-binary) or as non-gender.

God this is so narcissistic and ridiculous. Really it's hilariously funny except of course it isn't. The things people pander to. Where were all these concerned people when the Welfare Reform Bill went through, despite disabled people saying many would die as a result of it? Where are they when it comes to conversations about Yemen or the environment or the Yazidi women recovering from the crimes Isis committed against them?

It is all such virtue signalling bullshit.

Jean Hatchet's blog collates women's experiences:
(extract)
"Well. Women are unhappy. Lots of women are unhappy about this and we are being made to feel guilty for talking about it at work, or in public or in restaurants and bars. But actually .... lots of women don't use a rape crisis centre or a refuge. But we all use loos. This is what I found when I asked women how they feel about men in their loos. Any men. This is not about trans women. It is about women's experiences of men. Of women's girlhoods. Of their need for the safety of a place where they take down their knickers and change their tampons and sanitary towels. Of the places women feel alone sometimes. Of the places where women attend to the functional biological needs of their female bodies.

Some of this may shock you. Some of it might make you laugh. Some of it will make you angry. If you are a woman ....you will nod your head a lot.

So here we are.... women talking about women's loos. And we are NOT ASHAMED...." (continues with experiences)

jeanhatchet.blogspot.com/2018/10/a-gentleman-in-ladies.html

What the hell are female Muslim employees supposed to do?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel

I am guessing what happened is she was playing to the audience at the Gendered Intelligence conference and forgot other people would disagree about some fundamentals and so not be so impressed.

Yes, it sounds like someone basking in their own looniness cleverness.

There are definitely some people at the top who are positively gleeful at being able to make everything just a little bit more difficult for women to take part in everyday life than it already is.

How many of these organisations which are doing things like this are male-dominated professions? Home office, ambulance service... Didn't the fire brigade do similar?

Fucksake.
This is unreal.

Some men are against unisex changing rooms and toilets as well. I was at a residential while at uni where the toilets and shower rooms were not marked, so unisex. Some of the guys just didn't shower for the entire week, because they would feel awkward showering in the same room as women. Some of them went into town and found a fitness centre where they could shower. I just got up at 6:30 and showered. Decent men have absolutely no interest in seeing their female coworkers naked.

And from the comments underneath - bit of perspective from those who might think Jules &co., busy 'facing down bravado', are doing a shit job generally.

I work for the Ambulance Service. If you want to find an example of atrocious, mediocre management in the public services then have a look at these clowns.
What's the priority in the Ambulance Service? Stopping trivial calls that overload the service. What do management do about that? Absolutely nothing. What's the lowest priority in the Ambulance Service? Transgender rights. What do they do about that? Everything they possibly can.
It's better known as fiddling while Rome burns and keeps their outrageous pay rolling in until they can retire on their outrageous pensions all the while still appearing as though they are doing 'productive' work.

Sounds like the actions of every other cash strapped public service that's signed up to self-id.

Some men are against unisex changing rooms and toilets as well.

Times May 2018:
'Dirty protest over Somerville College, Oxford’s gender‑neutral loos'

"A term after an Oxford college introduced gender-neutral lavatories, male students have carried out a “dirty protest” over losing their urinals.

Last week they urinated on the floor of the “gender-neutral” cubicles in the bar at Somerville College, Oxford, and wrote on the wall: “We want our f urinals back”, according to an email sent by the president of the junior common room, Niall Macklin. In a message entitled “I can’t believe I am writing this”, Macklin said: “[Last night] someone took it upon themselves to urinate on the floor of one of the cubicles and inscribe ‘We want our f urinals back’. If you have a problem with the changes please use the democratic process and not dirty protests.

“Otherwise if you could refrain from being a barbaric idiot that would be great.”

Somerville students voted in January to replace “male” and “female” signs with the words “gender-neutral toilets with cubicles”. The lavatories in question no longer feature urinals but have cubicles with male and female symbols.

Somerville, which opened in 1879, was one of Oxford’s first women’s colleges and is Margaret Thatcher’s alma mater. It declares on its website that it was “founded to include the excluded”.

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3241624-dirty-protest-over-somerville-college-oxford-s-gender-neutral-loos

If you have a problem with the changes please use the democratic process and not dirty protests.

BUT THERE IS NO DEMOCRATIC PROCESS ANY MORE.

All they mean is, voice your protest verbally, or in writing, so that we officially can file it under bin. If there was a democratic process we wouldn't be in this state. But all there is is money, and the richest voice has it.

Still, it is reassuring that male students are protesting. Sickening as it is, they have much more clout than women and more chance of getting change.