Dirty protest over Somerville College, Oxford’s gender‑neutral loos

[WeAreGerbil]

I don't know how to do a share token (can anyone tell me?) but here is the link and text.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/dirty-protest-over-somerville-college-oxfords-genderneutral-loos-bf2jk50lc

A term after an Oxford college introduced gender-neutral lavatories, male students have carried out a “dirty protest” over losing their urinals.

Last week they urinated on the floor of the “gender-neutral” cubicles in the bar at Somerville College, Oxford, and wrote on the wall: “We want our f urinals back”, according to an email sent by the president of the junior common room, Niall Macklin. In a message entitled “I can’t believe I am writing this”, Macklin said: “[Last night] someone took it upon themselves to urinate on the floor of one of the cubicles and inscribe ‘We want our f urinals back’. If you have a problem with the changes please use the democratic process and not dirty protests.

“Otherwise if you could refrain from being a barbaric idiot that would be great.”

Somerville students voted in January to replace “male” and “female” signs with the words “gender-neutral toilets with cubicles”. The lavatories in question no longer feature urinals but have cubicles with male and female symbols.

Somerville, which opened in 1879, was one of Oxford’s first women’s colleges and is Margaret Thatcher’s alma mater. It declares on its website that it was “founded to include the excluded”.

[WeAreGerbil]

Sorry there's a bit more!

Three years ago, the then principal Alice Prochaska encouraged students to speak out against “laddish” behaviour such as “groping at social events, loud jokes in public places about rape and . . . homophobic remarks in student meetings”.

Other Oxford colleges including Wadham, Balliol, St Hugh’s and St John’s have brought in gender-neutral lavatories to make transgender students feel comfortable.
Somerville said it had told students that “vandalism” would not be tolerated, adding: “We expect all college members to treat each other with respect.”

[TrumpTrump]

There's a lot going on in that article!


Dirty protests are vulgar and have no place in civilized debate. A minimum wage cleaner probably had to clean that piss up, not cool.

[ijustwannadance]

Gender neutral toilets impacting women? No one gives a shit.
Gender neutral toilets impacting men?
The world takes notice.

I think most places so far seem to keep the mens and just make the women's unisex.
Urinals serve a purpose. Men pissing all over loo seats isn't a new problem.

[R0wantrees]

Claire Fox in interview with Julia H-B talked about how there was
"there is a culture wars on campus because some students don't like the censorious atmosphere'

There's a link to the interview in this thread about government intervention to ensure free speech in universities.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3238951-some-good-news

[AncientLights]

I remember spending illicit weekends about 40 years ago with my then boyfriend at Magdalen College Oxford, all male then. The only female loo for visitors was way away somewhere, too dangerous to go there at night in case I got caught by the authorities, so I backed out of the window onto the ledge and peed. Not sure of the moral of this tale now I come to think of it.

[R0wantrees]

Gender neutral toilet recently caused issues at NUStrans 18 conference when women's toilets were designated gender neutral whilst men's toilets remained:

segment below from OP of thread describing the twitter narrative:
"Currently in occupation of the bathroom lobby #bathroomcaucus #nustrans18"

"Be careful of slippery floors in the gender neutral bathroom - we have some cis tears 💦 #BathroomCaucus #Toiletgate #NUSTrans18"

cis tears or man piss?

"#NUStrans18 white people can we PLEASE listen to POC about engaging with the border force"

"#nustrans18 so update on what happened in the bathroom caucus: We were guarding the gender neutral sign, but weren’t in the way of the doors or anything
And a cis woman came in (not even to pee), saw the sign and went off 2/??
She started saying ‘what about our toilets’ to which we informed her that the gender neutral toilets are for everyone, and if she was uncomfortable she could use the women’s upstairs
She starts shouting ‘one at a time! Respect my authority! We’re here for longer than you!’"

"whoever occupied the bathrooms, you gonna apologise to your POC delegates? #nustrans18"

"great lil update from Finn on #BathroomCaucus these people are attempting to deny our right to pee and we were simply defending that, we were just minding our own business, she’s the one that got angry and aggressive and in our faces #NUSTrans18"

"#nustrans18 I sincerely apologise if mine or any other delegates actions escalated conflict/racism towards QTPOC. The thing is, I honestly don’t know what else I could have done? I didn’t provoke her, I didn’t get in her face."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3237230-NUS-Conference-breaks-down-after-the-UK-Border-Force-Arrive

[WeAreGerbil]

Yeah one of my first thoughts was I wonder if it's a woman who has to clean it up, but interesting (some) men don't like it, though I guess they could have questionable reasons....

[Springnowplease]

I posted about this this morning here -
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3241481-Some-men-arent-happy-with-gender-neutral-spaces-AIBU-in-thinking-they-should-just-suck-it-up?msgid=77651936

[SardineReturns]

Men pissing all over the floor is nothing new surely.

Why cant; they say fucking?

[Bowlofbabelfish]

Good.

I’ve said many times that since no one is listening to women, it’s time to make sure that men are inconvenienced by all this. Et voila! Men inconvenienced =people listen.

Give them their urinals back, have separate Male and female lavs and a third, single space. Make that space fully disabled accessible- as per ‘changing places’ guidelines and look! Everyone is served and safe.

[MaryPoppinsImperfectSister]

Reminds me of when they put tampons & pads in the men's room at a university.

Someone took a shit in the receptacle and threw the items away.
bowdoinorient.com/2017/03/31/feces-found-in-mens-room-used-tampon-box/

Apparently men don't worry about hurting peoples feelings or even common decency (they could have thrown the tampons and pads into the women's toilet).

[UpstartCrow]

''The lavatories in question no longer feature urinals but have cubicles with male and female symbols.''

I cant even.

[NotCisImaWoman]

Grim and horrid BUT part of me is pleased this is happening.

[Igneococcus]

With share token:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dirty-protest-over-somerville-college-oxfords-genderneutral-loos-bf2jk50lc?shareToken=3ff7b494d333954e73e9d4d0488122f1

wearegerbil
I click on the envelop symbol below the article and that opens an email in my Gmail that has the link with a share token in the body. I copy and paste that link. This does work on my PC with Firefox and on my android tablet with the app. It does not work on my android phone with the app, there the link doesn't contain the share token.

[WeAreGerbil]

Thanks Igneococcus I couldn't see how to do it on the page, and Googling didn't help either!

[Juells]

@Bowlofbabelfish
Make that space fully disabled accessible- as per ‘changing places’ guidelines and look! Everyone is served and safe.

Disabled rights activists point out that their spaces were fought for, and shouldn't be taken away.

[Looneytune253]

My dh works in a college and he probably wouldn’t notice the difference. Regularly soiled by people who should know better so prob the same in a university. Having to clean up blood, shit, urine on floors/walls on a daily basis.

[womanformallyknownaswoman]

Text:

A term after an Oxford college introduced gender-neutral lavatories, male students have carried out a “dirty protest” over losing their urinals.

Last week they urinated on the floor of the “gender-neutral” cubicles in the bar at Somerville College, Oxford, and wrote on the wall: “We want our f urinals back”, according to an email sent by the president of the junior common room, Niall Macklin. In a message entitled “I can’t believe I am writing this”, Macklin said: “[Last night] someone took it upon themselves to urinate on the floor of one of the cubicles and inscribe ‘We want our f urinals back’. If you have a problem with the changes please use the democratic process and not dirty protests.

“Otherwise if you could refrain from being a barbaric idiot that would be great.”

Somerville students voted in January to replace “male” and “female” signs with the words “gender-neutral toilets with cubicles”. The lavatories in question no longer feature urinals but have cubicles with male and female symbols.

Somerville, which opened in 1879, was one of Oxford’s first women’s colleges and is Margaret Thatcher’s alma mater. It declares on its website that it was “founded to include the excluded”.

Three years ago, the then principal Alice Prochaska encouraged students to speak out against “laddish” behaviour such as “groping at social events, loud jokes in public places about rape and . . . homophobic remarks in student meetings”.

Other Oxford colleges including Wadham, Balliol, St Hugh’s and St John’s have brought in gender-neutral lavatories to make transgender students feel comfortable.

Somerville said it had told students that “vandalism” would not be tolerated, adding: “We expect all college members to treat each other with respect.”

[R0wantrees]

From 2015
NUS LGBT+ Briefing paper
www.nusconnect.org.uk/resources/gender-neutral-toilets-guide
[extract]
"Who uses gender-neutral toilets?
The simple answer is anyone! That is the whole point of ‘neutralising’ the gendered signage
on the doors of the toilets. They can be used by anyone, regardless of gender, without fear of
incident, discrimination or harassment.
Often, a gender-neutral toilet is a positive choice for those with more ambiguous gender
presentation or those who do not fit into the rigid categories of looking like a ‘man’ or a ‘woman’.
People with a more ambiguous gender presentation can be subject to discrimination whichever
gendered toilet they use, and therefore a gender-neutral toilet can provide a safer alternative to
traditional male and female toilets. These people may or may not identify as trans, or as LGBT.
Some trans people identify outside of the gender binary, and choose not to define their gender as
either a man or woman. Having gender-neutral toilets ensures that these people will not be forced
to choose the ‘best option’ toilet instead of one they actually feel comfortable with."

[WeAreGerbil]

Having gender-neutral toilets ensures that these people will not be forced to choose the ‘best option’ toilet instead of one they actually feel comfortable with."

But women can't choose the toilet they actually feel comfortable with if that's a women only one!

[Juells]

@WeAreGerbil
But women can't choose the toilet they actually feel comfortable with if that's a women only one!

Fuck them. We're talking about men's feelings here, get your priorities right.

[wielblad]

"Having gender-neutral toilets ensures that these people will not be forced to choose the ‘best option’ toilet instead of one they actually feel comfortable with."

Pity that changing to them is generally done in ways that lead to women having to use an 'only option' toilet instead of one they actually feel comfortable with.

Calling them gender-neutral seems misleading as well. What they are is unisex.

They can be used by anyone, regardless of gender, without fear of
incident, discrimination or harassment."

Sure, they can. As we all know, unisex toilets have never under any circumstances caused anyone to fear harassment or other incidents.

[Bowlofbabelfish]

Having gender-neutral toilets ensures that these people will not be forced to choose the ‘best option’ toilet instead of one they actually feel comfortable with

But it does force people to do that and it does stop people using a toilet they are comfortable with. But those people are all women so who gives a shiny fuck, is that right?

So in effect; absolutely everybody else’s wishes and preferences over the needs of women. Again.

[R0wantrees]

2017 NUS Briefing www.nusconnect.org.uk/resources/gender-neutral-toilets-briefing
Introduction by Melantha Chittenden, NUS LGBT+ Officer (Women’s Place)

"Gender-neutral Toilets are a necessary step to ensuring that trans, non-binary and gender non-conforming students have a safe environment where they can use the bathroom.
For trans students, gendered bathrooms can be spaces where they are met with intimidation, harassment and/or violence. This occurs when people police the identities of others based on binary assumptions of what men and women look and act like.
Some trans students may also simply not want to define their gender by choosing a toilet based on gender. When a toilet is gender neutral a person does not have to choose a bathroom that does not align with their gender identity.
It’s important to note that whilst gender-neutral toilets are important, we must also work to ensure that trans students feel safe when using gendered toilets. Some trans people may feel pressured to use the gender-neutral toilets if they exist. Making sure this isn’t the case is vital
– we recommend ensuring any staff that have contact with students are trained in trans inclusion to ensure the safety and wellbeing of trans students.
This briefing was created with the purpose of helping students’ unions lobby their institutions to implement Gender-neutral Toilets on campus..." continues

[Bowlofbabelfish]

Some trans people may feel pressured to use the gender-neutral toilets if they exist. Making sure this isn’t the case is vital

‘Some people may still be such snowflakes they’re upset by the existence of an entirely separate facility created for them at the expense of facilities for other groups. Women however, can continue to fuck off...’