Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Flip

1 2 3 4 5

Original poster

How can I have it all without doing it all?

105 replies

ButterflyWitch · 09/11/2018 11:42

Like many others I feel a bit conned with all the feminist messages I got growing up. Yes I got a higher education (PhD), a good job (I'm the breadwinner) married a good guy who's happy (theoretically) to treat me as an equal, had my 2 kids etc but 'having it all' has mean that I've ended up doing it all and I'm knackered!
I'm at a point in my career - recently returned from mat leave - and my company is undergoing a huge restructure. It's an opportunity for me to get a new job and potentially a more senior job (think senior manager to associate director). I'm more than qualified for it - and my feminist balls are quite happy to go for it - but in practice how can I manage a more demanding job when I'm barely managing as it is juggling the kids and the house and all the 'wife work' that automatically falls to me.
I would LOVE to go for a more senior job but I just can't see how I could manage at home? I guess the extra pay could pay for some help (cleaner etc) and DH could maybe drop some time at work if my salary increase would cover it?
I hate how these aren't considerations a man has to take.... :-(
I should add that atm I'm ft but over 4 days (8-6), luckily work from home with some occasional travel - but I still do the majority of school/childcare drop offs and pick ups. A more senior job would mean I would probably have to do more travel, back to 5d/week etc.

I just don't see how it's possible? Or do I suck it up for next few years and then spread my wings when kids are older??

OP posts:

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 09/11/2018 11:45

I would be inclined to buy in extra help, and not put the plans on hold. How does DH respond to convos about the wife-work/stepping up a bit more?

kitkat6 · 09/11/2018 11:47

What do you want to do?

If you want the promotion then you could use some of the funds to pay for a cleaner, nanny, gardener etc. If you want less stress and to be able to spend more time with you child then don't go for the promotion and down size your job.

From watching a lot of the guys I know they don't get as stressed or worried about making these decisions they go with their gut instinct.

JuliaJaynes9 · 09/11/2018 11:50

Is the guys gut instinct not to leave the 'wife work' to the wife?

UpstartCrow · 09/11/2018 11:50

You weren't conned by feminists but by your partner. He should bear 50% of the load. If he isn't working with you he isn't your partner; you are his facilitator.

Dragon3 · 09/11/2018 11:51

I don't think that it is possible to have it all when men choose not to step up to their family responsibilities. These ARE considerations that a man should take. Have you discussed this with your husband?

Original poster

ButterflyWitch · 09/11/2018 11:52

tbh he's just not able to do it. Doesn't matter how I present it - he can't do it. Partly he's literally not able to and partly he doesn't have capacity (he's away from home maybe 8-6.30 each day).
We don't have any family support or friends nearby so everything falls to us and that's hard in itself with 2 demanding kids.
If I do really push him to do something he just gets really stressed. EG if I'm ill and he has the kids all day at the weekend, he gets so stressed that I have to take over the next day and take them out somewhere so that he can then get a rest - even if still ill
He's great with the kids, and it is what it is.......

OP posts:

OhTheRoses · 09/11/2018 11:52

Combination of compromise and help: nanny, cleaner, etc. High powered jobs require a high powered full time plus commitment. Everyone has the opportunity to have it all but nobody can take out more than they put in either personally or by sub contracting. Families are teams and teams work together to maximise the teams overall success. Sometimes that means one if the players has to let the other reach goal whilst they defend.

Original poster

ButterflyWitch · 09/11/2018 11:54

kitkat that's exactly the issue - I don't know what I want.
I WANT a rewarding, fulfilling career - but I also don't want extra stress at home, and to kill myself trying to please everyone.
I want to be there for my kids....

I just can't reconcile the 2

OP posts:

JuliaJaynes9 · 09/11/2018 11:56

if I do really push him to do something he just gets really stressed. EG if I'm ill and he has the kids all day at the weekend, he gets so stressed that I have to take over the next day and take them out somewhere so that he can then get a rest
How very convenient for him 🙄
Come on he's taking the piss isn't he

TheSmallAssassin · 09/11/2018 11:57

How is he great with the kids if he can't even cope with them for more than a day? What is it exactly that he's not able to do? You aren't genetically predisposed to be able to do wife work, you just learnt how to do things and just get on with it. So can he.

Original poster

ButterflyWitch · 09/11/2018 11:58

Come on he's taking the piss isn't he

True - but if he can't cope, he can't cope and I can't change that

OP posts:

JuliaJaynes9 · 09/11/2018 11:58

He's not great with the kids at all
He employs the 'feigned incompetence' strategy to get out of doing his fair share

Original poster

ButterflyWitch · 09/11/2018 11:59

some really good responses and points for me to ponder.

I strongly suspect DH may be getting a bit of a kick up his arse....

OP posts:

JuliaJaynes9 · 09/11/2018 11:59

True - but if he can't cope, he can't cope and I can't change that
Then he has you over a barrel doesn't he
He chooses not to cope and that means you're fucked
you don't have any leverage in the situation

TheSmallAssassin · 09/11/2018 12:00

The way you get better at coping is to practise, not just give up. Make sure he gets some.

Original poster

ButterflyWitch · 09/11/2018 12:02

If the roles were reversed and DH were going for a promotion, we'd check how it would impact family life (longer hours etc) but he wouldn't have to worry about all this as a) he doesn't currently do it and B) he knows I would pick it up.

I think it's becoming clear that I can only do this if my salary increase is enough to buy in help and DH drops some time from work and steps up with the life admin. If he can't do this, then it's just not possible for me to take on more responsibility at work

OP posts:

CMOTDibbler · 09/11/2018 12:03

I only do my fair share of 'wifework' as DH is equally capable of doing household admin and child juggling as I am.

If you want the promotion, go for it and then redistribute the share of tasks

MagicMix · 09/11/2018 12:03

If I do really push him to do something he just gets really stressed. EG if I'm ill and he has the kids all day at the weekend, he gets so stressed that I have to take over the next day and take them out somewhere so that he can then get a rest

Don't accept that. Yes, taking care of small children can be stressful but he is not inherently less capable than you of handling that. Don't infantilise him. Do you think that if, god forbid, you died or were hospitalised or something he would be literally unable to look after his children for a whole weekend? Or even if you went on a trip without him (has this never happened?). Of course he wouldn't. If he had to, he would do it.

He just feels at the moment, perhaps largely subconsciously to give him the benefit of the doubt, that the children are essentially your responsibility and anything he does is 'helping you'. You may also be buying into this model, feeling that ultimately the responsibility is yours and that you are in a position where you are essentially asking for help with your work. This is the 'natural model' as presented to us by society and to resist it will take conscious willpower, but it is very possible.

JuliaJaynes9 · 09/11/2018 12:05

So this thing where he can't cope with the children when you're ill
what he is doing is playing a game of chicken with the children's wellbeing
he 'drops' the children knowing that you have to catch them, because if you don't catch them they will suffer and it will be framed as your fault, not his fault

So what it comes down to is do what I want or the kids will suffer
Emotional blackmail

Alwayscheerful · 09/11/2018 12:05

How much do you outsource at the moment?

In terms of
Ironing
Household Shopping
Gardening
Window cleaning
House cleaning
Laundry and ironing
Cooking
House maintenance

Wife-work for example
Christmas entertaining
Christmas cards presents
Christmas Prep , tree decorating house etc
Wider family birthday cards & presents
Holiday planning.

Dragon3 · 09/11/2018 12:07

There was an amazing 'facilitated men' thread here a while ago. It might be worth a read, OP.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 09/11/2018 12:07

Can't cope or won't cope? Sounds like the latter to me. What do you think would happen if you broke a leg badly and had to be in hospital for a month - would he actually just cope or would the kids end up with social services?

Is there an actual reason he can't cope (like a disability)?

However, it sounds like it might be quite stressful for you calling him out and trying to get him to step up like a decent adult would without being asked, something that would possibly be even more stressful when trying to do a new demanding job.
I do sympathise

Original poster

ButterflyWitch · 09/11/2018 12:08

How much do you outsource at the moment?

At the moment, nothing (apart from childcare) as we are totally skint (another reason for me to want the bigger job) Although in the past have had cleaner, gardner and window cleaner

OP posts:

Badstyley · 09/11/2018 12:08

People tend to learn to cope, when they have to. You’ve coped till now with all the housework and childcare. Do you have some special magical quality that he doesn’t? He can learn to cope as well.

I wish I had someone who’d come and cope for me, to save me the hassle of having to.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 09/11/2018 12:12

Wow Julia excellent post, so true. So many men do this.

this thing where he can't cope with the children when you're ill
what he is doing is playing a game of chicken with the children's wellbeing
he 'drops' the children knowing that you have to catch them, because if you don't catch them they will suffer and it will be framed as your fault, not his fault
So what it comes down to is do what I want or the kids will suffer
Emotional blackmail

Flip

1 2 3 4 5