Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

How can I have it all without doing it all?

105 replies

ButterflyWitch · 09/11/2018 11:42

Like many others I feel a bit conned with all the feminist messages I got growing up. Yes I got a higher education (PhD), a good job (I'm the breadwinner) married a good guy who's happy (theoretically) to treat me as an equal, had my 2 kids etc but 'having it all' has mean that I've ended up doing it all and I'm knackered!
I'm at a point in my career - recently returned from mat leave - and my company is undergoing a huge restructure. It's an opportunity for me to get a new job and potentially a more senior job (think senior manager to associate director). I'm more than qualified for it - and my feminist balls are quite happy to go for it - but in practice how can I manage a more demanding job when I'm barely managing as it is juggling the kids and the house and all the 'wife work' that automatically falls to me.
I would LOVE to go for a more senior job but I just can't see how I could manage at home? I guess the extra pay could pay for some help (cleaner etc) and DH could maybe drop some time at work if my salary increase would cover it?
I hate how these aren't considerations a man has to take.... :-(
I should add that atm I'm ft but over 4 days (8-6), luckily work from home with some occasional travel - but I still do the majority of school/childcare drop offs and pick ups. A more senior job would mean I would probably have to do more travel, back to 5d/week etc.

I just don't see how it's possible? Or do I suck it up for next few years and then spread my wings when kids are older??

OP posts:
Weetabixandshreddies · 09/11/2018 12:13

Long working hours + children only works if you have someone to do all of the "wife work". I'm not saying that has to be the wife btw. Just observing that the set up of 1 person working outside of the home and 1 working within the home is probably the ideal. This isn't really do able now though so the jobs of a theoretical SAHP have to be re allocated - either to both parents or to paid help or possibly to extended family.

There's no other way is there? Either fore go the job opportunity or take it and work on other solutions for the family tasks but with your husband. It isn't just down to you.

Original poster
ButterflyWitch · 09/11/2018 12:14

Ineedacupoftea
If I wasn't around then he would be able to look after the kids although standards would be very low - lots of cartoons and chicken nuggets.
He'd most likely have to get my Mum down to help. There's no way he could manage the logistics over an extended period of time. But, perhaps I am selling him short.

Is there an actual reason he can't cope (like a disability)?
In short, no. But we've had an incredibly difficult time over the last few years (court cases/house moves/family problems). I had counselling and am over the worst of it - but he didn't and it's fair to say he doesn't have much resilience left. He finds it very difficult to cope with stress

OP posts:
rubyontherocks · 09/11/2018 12:14

I was in your position about 5 years ago. I took the job, my husband stepped up to cover some of the domestic tasks, and we agreed to pay for as much help as we could.

It has been very hard work at times. It takes a lot of non-emotional clear communication with my DH about who does what at home, and many discussions about what are the really important things for our family. I often have to let my standards slip at home, and there are times when pressures at work and home coincide. Events happen that you don’t anticipate and you need a way of handling them that isn’t just the woman dropping everything. E.g. Kids are ill and we have to make quick decisions about which of us can or should stay home that day.

Now, after gaining the experience, I’m in a better position to demand more flexibility and time with my kids. I feel my negotiating position is far ahead of where I was 5 years ago.

Original poster
ButterflyWitch · 09/11/2018 12:16

Julia - very true. I bf both kids (still bf baby) so the buck very much stops with me

OP posts:
BlaaBlaaBlaa · 09/11/2018 12:18

Really interesting thread. Echos a conversation I had with my friend last night. At the moment me and DH share household and childcare responsibilities relatively equally while both working full time in quite demanding jobs. DH is starting a new job in Jan which , initially, will mean he will be unable to do any nursery drop offs or pick ups... It has some how fallen to me to organise this as it hadn't even occured to him.

It wasn't until he had a conversation with my boss( we currently work at the same place) and he asked him how the new job would impact on his childcare responsibilities that it suddenly dawned on him how unfair he was being. And my DH is pretty enlightened.....just shows you how ingrained this is.

DropOffArtiste · 09/11/2018 12:21

I am a LP who works fulltime in a high pressure City job. I am out of the house 7.30am till 6.30pm everyday. I buy in help with an au pair and cleaner, but it is fine.
If I can cope, I'm sure your DH will be fine.

Original poster
ButterflyWitch · 09/11/2018 12:23

some great responses, appreciate all the posts - thank you all

OP posts:
Original poster
ButterflyWitch · 09/11/2018 12:24

dropOff how old are your kids? How do you feel about being away from them for long days?

OP posts:
Original poster
ButterflyWitch · 09/11/2018 12:25

back later - I have to go and DO some more :-)

OP posts:
Weetabixandshreddies · 09/11/2018 12:26

Maybe it just isn't possible to have it all - the job, the children etc? And I am talking about both parents equally here. Perhaps as a unit you have to be very frank about what your resources allow you to do. By resources I mean financial, emotional, physical, time etc.

Realistically if you together can't afford to buy in the help that you need then this has to factor in your decisions. Either a parent has to pick up/drop off at school, look after children during school holidays, illness etc, do the shopping, cleaning, cooking, washing or you pay someone to do it.

JuliaJaynes9 · 09/11/2018 12:27

@Ineedacupofteadesperately, thanks 😊
I think it always helps if you can try and reframe the issue

DropOffArtiste · 09/11/2018 12:28

I have a 9 yr old, but have been working this system and an LP since he was 2 (before that I worked 4 days a week).
It has got easier since he's been at school and we have an au pair. Rushing to childminder collection was quite stressful.
The days are fine, we don't know any different and have a very close relationship.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 09/11/2018 12:29

OP I think that it probably depends how happy you are with low standards (chicken nuggets and tv) for the kids then and whether your Mum is willing to help long term. Maybe you should discuss it with her.

I mean, obviously it would be more ideal if he just grew up and acted like a responsible adult and parent (lots of people have a lot of stress, it's life, doing stuff with your kids and cooking nice meals for them can actually be quite rewarding and non stressful if you structure it well), but you do need to be realistic for the kids sakes.

I know it's not easy to balance these things. Good luck with a difficult decision.

JuliaJaynes9 · 09/11/2018 12:30

it suddenly dawned on him how unfair he was being
Wifework aka life admin just isn't on the internal to-do list is it🙄

DropOffArtiste · 09/11/2018 12:31

Husbands create a lot of wifework as well. Don't underestimate how much extra work he is creating for you as well as just not contributing.

Original poster
ButterflyWitch · 09/11/2018 12:33

My mum helping out is not an option - she lives a short flight away and although would help out in an emergency she’s not otherwise interested/willing to help

OP posts:
JuliaJaynes9 · 09/11/2018 12:34

Yes husband's create wife work!
I remember a few years ago when hubby was Manfully carrying all those big heavy shopping bags into the kitchen I thought how nice that he's lugging all that about and I don't have to
then I thought hold on most of that food is for him anyway 🤣

BlardyBlar · 09/11/2018 12:36

Or do I suck it up for next few years and then spread my wings when kids are older??

I would urge some caution over this. I’ve worked for my wingspreading time and now I’m chronically ill. I have also wondered if the illness may also be a result of chronic stress and overwork.

Not saying don’t go for it. Just try to keep perspective over quality of life now versus future reward.

Original poster
ButterflyWitch · 09/11/2018 12:37

It’s true that we just might not be able to manage this now. I/we only have so much energy and cash for now. I know the juggle will get easier as the kids get older so perhaps it’s something for the future rather than now.
Doesn’t solve my immediate restructure/job issues though!!

OP posts:
DropOffArtiste · 09/11/2018 12:39

DH still needs to step up so that he can look after the children for more than a day at a time.

BlaaBlaaBlaa · 09/11/2018 12:40

@julia not on the same level as me. He would have thought about it eventually but by then it's usually too late to do anything practically!

DropOffArtiste · 09/11/2018 12:40

You are the breadwinner, your job may potentially be at risk if you don't step up. DH needs to step up to his family responsibilities in this scenario.

It doesn't sound like you have the choice to just maintain the status quo.

elastamum · 09/11/2018 12:42

I did similar as a single parent. You have to outsource. I had an aupair, cleaner, a gardener and all our shopping was delivered. It is still really hard going. That said, now my DC are at uni I have a well paid senior job and am on my way to an early retirement. I used to feel guilty, until I remarked to my son that I had never baked his birthday cake and he just looked at me blankly, it had never occurred to him that I should! I had no one else, if you are a team your DH needs to step up

MagicMix · 09/11/2018 12:42

If I wasn't around then he would be able to look after the kids although standards would be very low - lots of cartoons and chicken nuggets.
He'd most likely have to get my Mum down to help. There's no way he could manage the logistics over an extended period of time.

It sounds like he's not great with the kids at all, then. He can (presumably) do some of the fun bits in the style of a sort of uncle figure, but you clearly don't think much of him as an actual father. What is his job? I'm assuming he possesses some basic organisational skills that he needs for that. If he's coping at work, he can cope at home.

But, perhaps I am selling him short.

One would certainly hope so! For what it's worth, even though I don't know him I am pretty sure that you are (and also that he is deliberately selling himself short because it suits him). Anyway, practice makes perfect. I strongly suggest you give him a lot more practice. This is definitely tricky when you are breastfeeding as biology just isn't fair during this period of parenting. But you have to fight tooth and nail to ensure that the realities of breastfeeding don't shape the permanent dynamics of your family in a way you don't want them too. I understand from personal experience how these roles just seem to naturally emerge. You have to be really vigilant.

AssassinatedBeauty · 09/11/2018 12:44

If he can hold down a job then of course he is capable of managing long term logistics for the children. He just doesn't want to and knows he doesn't have to.

I'd go for the job and discuss with your partner how things will need to change to facilitate that.