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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Really shaken - male rage at work

153 replies

SkullPointerException · 08/11/2018 19:23

For some background: I'm in STEM, so we're looking at a very low percentage of female employees in comparison to other industries. We've also just had another promotions round. Brilliant outcome for women: despite there being significantly fewer of us, we're actually more than half of all promotees. And, speaking as one of the managers involved in the decision process, I'm proud to say that it's all on merit and no affirmative action was involved on the grounds that it simply wasn't needed. We just really focussed on hiring and retaining really good women, and the results speak for themselves.

Anyway, on to what actually happened: male colleague, supervisory level, was passed over for a promotion he applied for in favour of a woman with more experience and, frankly, a much stronger track record. Cue divisional meeting today. All promotion decisions are officially announced to everyone present, including male colleague (who, of course, already knew about himself but not all the other positions).

Colleague utterly loses it, stands up in the middle of the meeting and yells at his manager (male), me (female and his direct boss' line manager) as well as my own line manager (male, very proper and very senior) that we're discriminating against him and that we're utter hypocrites and a bunch of other utterly insane stuff. Then goes on to yell at his female colleagues whose promotions have just been announced that they know they're not better than him and they know they're token women and so on.

We're all speechless but, at this point, I somehow find my voice and order him to sit down, STFU and apologise to his colleagues. He refuses and accuses me of owing my position to having slept with my (also present) boss.

At this point, I literally tell him "sit down and behave like an adult or I'll suspend you with immediate effect on the grounds of gross misconduct". Colleague gets up and storms out of the room.

30 minutes later, his boss, myself and my boss all get an email from HR: colleague has filed a formal grievance claiming sex discrimination.

Anyway, I'm not worried about the outcome. We've got ample evidence for why we picked the candidates we did and it's all well above board. And naturally, colleague's outburst doesn't exactly speak for his leadership qualities and underlines why we were concerned about his emotional maturity. In fact, we've pretty much decided that we're going to have to let him go after this.

I am utterly shaken by his outburst, though. I know about male rage in theory and I have experienced it in a personal capacity, albeit never in a professional situation. The level of rage and entitlement, though. It was utterly terrifying. There was something almost primal about the way he went for his female colleagues (and myself, his boss' boss). I'm obviously an adult and I'm an experienced manager, so it's not something professional me can't handle. But personal me, just a woman who's made it in a male dominated field, is petrified. He hates me so much. He hates my female employees, his colleagues and - in some cases - his direct reports, so much. And he feels so entitled to be the boss of us and to be given preferential treatment over us because he's a man. And he speaks to us with such utter contempt and superiority.

I don't really know what I'm asking. I guess I just needed to share with people I know at least won't reply with "but what about the poor men". Anyway, it's been a horrible day. It'll turn out alright situation-wise, but I can't help being in tears at the ugliness of it all.

Sad
OP posts:
mummmy2017 · 09/11/2018 01:45

Someone I know had rage like this.
Instant dismissal.
How have you not all put in complain to HR about him?

Bowlofbabelfish · 09/11/2018 02:50

It terrifying when you see it isn’t it? Take care of yourself and don’t be surprised if you feel a bit wobbly

I’d get the thread taken down as it’s fairly identifying.
Make sure HR handle this absolutely correctly - leave him no room for comeback.

You (as a company, not you personally) are also going to have to discuss this afterwards. This was on the brink of physical violence and that’s something your workplace is going to have to think about carefully. What if this person had had access to a weapon? What are your safety procedures? How will this be dealt with if it happens again? What are you learning from this? Will there be any follow up with the staff who witnessed this?

I spent some time in one of our US office a while back and was disturbed to see they had shooter protocols. :/

It’s a shocking thing to happen - you don’t expect to feel physically unsafe in a professional office environment. Well done for dealing with it professionally.

gingergenius · 09/11/2018 05:15

What an horrendous experience. We still have so far to go sadly. I do hope the sex discrimination claim gets laughed out.

StillAFeminist · 09/11/2018 05:55

I work in STEM as well so have some insight.

It is an environment that is hostile to women so the only women who last tend to be passionate about what they do and good at it, this will mean those women are on average better than the men's in the field on average. So it's great the promotions Have reflected that.

There's been lots of useful comments but I really think you should go read Popchyk comment again (several times)

Also while you are used to the 'sleeping your way to the top' insinuations I think it's possible you have missed how monumentally out of order that is and you owe it to yourself and the other women to raise that as a part of his misconduc as sexual harassment. Make sure HR are all over this, and that they stay all over it and on your side.

It's great he did this in public. The worst rage I've encountered has always been done in private and I've not been able to complain as it's been my word against his and I knew I would be portrayed as 'hysterical and over sensitive'. I did report a client sexually harassing me to my boss once and he laughed and put me on every project with that particular client after that Angry I left...

I'm slightly anxious about this post being found although I don't think many men in stem grasp mumsnet. I do think it's good for other women to see what other men may be keeping under wraps.

I love technology but being a women in stem sucks, if I had daughters I'm not sure I'd encourage them to do it.

StillAFeminist · 09/11/2018 05:58

And get protection, raise your fear of harassment after he's left with hr and get the company to pay to take out whatever a restraining order is called these days.

larrygrylls · 09/11/2018 06:16

He behaved abominably and should have been immediately suspended and then, after due process, fired for gross misconduct.

He is a pathetic excuse for a man.

However I have seen females behave similarly (including playing the grievance game) and get paid out. It does not need to be labelled as ‘male’ rage and, let’s face it, his grievance would be laughed out if tribunal, unlike a female in the same position.

However I am still amazed that he is still in the same office as those he threatened and harassed. He needs to be suspended.

Shriek · 09/11/2018 06:22

...umm...check the stats on women -v-/men in stem? Isn't that the point of the thread, its male dominated, but this time it wasn't?

tenorladybeaker · 09/11/2018 06:45

You have been absolutely brilliant OP. Well done. I agree with your boss that it was quite right for you to be the one who put him down. If a man had stepped in to rescue you the dynamic would have been less effective.

Such nasty misogynists have no place in a professional environment now. Unfortunately they are more prevalent than we know, as they mostly keep quiet.

Unfortunately it is easy to underestimate how much hatred of women there still is out there, hidden only just beneath the surface.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 09/11/2018 08:31

I disagree your male colleagues should have stepped in. If that was the case we'd all be sat here reading a thread about how your male colleagues jumped in and wouldn't let you handle it and it takes a man to say something before anyone listens and men won't let you lead your team.

Also surprised by some of the comments about STEM. I work/have worked in STEM and couldn't ever make a firm statement like "it's hostile to women". My personal experiences are very different - women at every level and have encountered fewer mysoginists than in other jobs I've had.

rememberatime · 09/11/2018 09:22

Can I ask the age of this man? My daughter is starting to enter this world. She is incredibly capable, leagues ahead of fellow students in terms of her academic abilities and has been given many opportunities due to this.

I have spoken to her about the ratio of women working in her field and how she thinks it might affect per progression as she moves forward. She's adamant that the old culture is dying out and that her peers will not tolerate that kind of behaviour. She is sure that the the boys she currently studies with and who treat her as a friend will move into the workplace with the same attitude - that she s good at what she does and deserves credit for it.

But I am not convinced. I don't think there has been a change in the way young men view women int the workplace. I really don't. I am sure this is something she will have to deal with, even from her so-called enlightened male peers.

Callmejudith · 09/11/2018 12:10

Skull you should be bloody proud of yourself for how you handled the same situation. It would have meant a LOT to your females colleagues to see you stand up to him.

The accusation of sleeping your way to the top is completely inexcusable. That's gross misconduct right there.

Shriek · 09/11/2018 12:14

I hope you are ok OP? Feeling less shakey today.

whinny · 09/11/2018 12:21

He needs to go.

HR should organise this if they are functional.

I worked somewhere which allowed Male rage.

I was working from home as a senior manager that one day - and I heard reports of a guy not handling his at risk redundancy situation - and he started kicking stuff around the office which is open plan.

So I tell his manager - on the phone and say please get a cab for him to take him home - he needs to be suspended on full pay while an investigation happens.

This senior manager refuses.

He says he is just upset about the restructure and he will calm down.

I am more senior than this manager but am not his direct report - he still refuses.

I go to the ceo and say look this man needs to leave the building - we are putting others at risk - the ceo disagrees because by that time the senior manager had got some other sympathetic women managers who felt it was ok to have a male kicking rubbish bins throwing his weight around and generally terrifying people. He needed to be around his team to be supported and these women managers could help with that?

I was quite new to the organisation - turns out the rubbish bin kicker was a complete nasty fuck who verbally and snidely abused women with nasty porn filled emails.
I got rid of him but what a scary company culture. I was fought at nearly every step of the way.

The Male rager even managed to get sympathy as poor him he had been put at risk of redundancy.

Women even complained to me after I had dealt with him. I was too harsh and should have given him more time to reflect on his abuse behaviour.

I felt that part of the reaction was because the ceo and the senior manager were Male and just didn't want to accept their more junior colleague was an abusive shit. It was very scary how women worked there without real power but realised that they had to toe the sick line.

Sounds like you have power OP - use it well.

Keep yourself safe but use your power well.

Bowlofbabelfish · 09/11/2018 12:37

She is sure that the the boys she currently studies with and who treat her as a friend will move into the workplace with the same attitude - that she s good at what she does and deserves credit for it.

I’m sure she is good. And I hope she’s right. But I think I’m all honesty you are right. I’ve been that hopeful young high achieving woman. I’m now a far more cynical middle aged one.

Men will not give up power.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3082251-Men-whose-lives-are-facilitated-by-women-how-did-this-happen

Get her to have a read of this thread and the follow up. This is the reality.

Datun · 09/11/2018 12:39

This is simply not meant to be something we should have to be equipped for in what is supposedly a professional setting in what is meant to be a civilised society.

When I first read Germaine Greer saying that women have no idea how much men hate them, I thought well that's a bit harsh.

I've completely changed my mind. It's entirely accurate (and of course NAMALT)

OP, you've talked about HR, gross misconduct, grievances, etc. These are all frameworks designed to filter behaviour in the right direction. And you've just found out exactly how paper thin it all is.

The gloves come off, the mask slips and the contempt for women is blatant. The rage generated by not being able to maintain that contempt publicly by being undeservedly promoted over them, is frightening.

Yes you did everything right, admirably, and fortunately you have a framework where this man will suffer the consequences. But the only thing between you and him smacking you one, is that framework.

It's very frightening. (That's why the book The Power was a bit of an eye-opener to me. We don't have it, because it relies on strength.)

Well done for using the tools at your disposal, which was corporate power.

It's not hard to see how the women before us, fighting for political representation, absolutely understood that in the absence of brawn, brain must be utilised.

ErrolTheDragon · 09/11/2018 12:41

Also surprised by some of the comments about STEM. I work/have worked in STEM and couldn't ever make a firm statement like "it's hostile to women". My personal experiences are very different - women at every level and have encountered fewer mysoginists than in other jobs I've had.

'STEM' is huge and very diverse - there are good and bad sectors/employers/teams. I work in a niche writing scientific software, as far as I can see people are judged objectively on their merits. The proportion of women seems to be rising - partly, perhaps, because women are more likely to stay with a company that they know is a good employer rather than risking moving to one which mightn't be? We've had a few cases of a bloke leaving for promotion and a woman being moved up into that position. This sort of effect could lead to a certain amount of polarisation with the already good companies becoming better.

JuliaJaynes9 · 09/11/2018 12:43

And let's not forget that brains will always trump brawn
The pen is mightier than the sword etc

Loopytiles · 09/11/2018 12:46

Have recently seen some VERY entitled behaviour from young male colleagues in graduate roles in my organisation (as a manager). Eg expecting immediate promotion, asking for pay rises, bonuses and so on. Not seeing their skills gaps/ performance issues, way overclaiming what they’ve personally delivered.

I was pretty naive as a younger woman: not any more. The younger women where I work seem much savvier, luckily.

We have set up “Lean In Circles” which are essentially support groups of women at the same kind of level within an organisation: my one is really good. Lots of good free stuff on the website, much of which could be looked at alone if nothing like that where you work, some good tips.

Plessis · 09/11/2018 12:47

This puts me off STEM for my dds tbh.

I am an employer and am amazed he hasn't been dismissed for Gross Misconduct?

Knittedfairies · 09/11/2018 12:52

Magnificently handled OP. It does make me wonder how this man has behaved towards his female colleagues when not in such a public space though; how many women have you lost because of his attitude?

OlennasWimple · 09/11/2018 12:57

Solidarity, sister. Hope today has gone OK

adulthumanandtired · 09/11/2018 12:58

I work in STEM and haven’t seen this but clearly this behaviour is the exception rather than the rule so I wouldn’t expect most of us to have witnessed similar. I have seen and dealt with a fair share of shit, you need to be resilient to survive.
The company need to ensure he not allowed in the office - at the very least he has had a breakdown and at worst he is a dangerous man with a grudge.

ZackPizzazz · 09/11/2018 12:59

She is sure that the the boys she currently studies with and who treat her as a friend will move into the workplace with the same attitude - that she s good at what she does and deserves credit for it.

I'm trying very hard not to say "bless her", but...

I would give a good deal to believe she is right.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 09/11/2018 13:09

'STEM' is huge and very diverse - there are good and bad sectors/employers/teams.

I guess so, which is why "it's hostile to women" as a blanket statement shouldn't be made in my opinion. It will only put girls off getting into it.
FWIW I've worked in medical/chemistry type area and women are very well represented and respected. Off the top of my head I can name dozens of female professors or company directors.

Imsoimso · 09/11/2018 13:13

Wow, you handled that like a BOSS. Well done you.
Don't worry, he'll lose his job over this. You my love are left standing.
Thank Christ you're not in a relationship with him because some poor soul probably is.
Applausus!