Great blog about being a trans inclusive feminist

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Here: alicenuttallbooks.wordpress.com/2018/11/04/why-i-am-a-trans-inclusive-feminist/

Enjoy!

Just to clarify- I asked GG those questions with no mention of trans.

They still couldn’t explain why girls and boys shouldn't share sleeping and changing accommodation.

They still couldn’t explain why girls and boys shouldn't share sleeping and changing accommodation.

And this is the exact conflict that early can't logically resolve.

No, you can't come in, unless you say some magic words. Then it's fine.

What is the difference? What is the difference between a man and a transwoman that makes one a threat and the other not?

Apart from the one demanding entry claiming women are nothing more than a stereotype.

Has anyone sat down with these organisations and explained to them why self ID is dangerous?

Yes. Us. All. The. Fucking. Time.

Most recently, on here: the NSPCC came for a webchat. Saw the questions and pulled out. Statement provided: we do not believe there are any issues.

Also worth noting Testosterone causes things such as increased muscle and bone mass (thus men are typically stronger) it is also a huge factor in aggression.

Still higher than a woman but not that of a typical everyday Male.

A fully transitioned transwoman has no penis to rape you with or flash you with, that’s why I mentioned it in response to the whole ‘I don’t want a penis in my changing room’ obviously.

I saw the NSPCC chat, I was disappointed they didn’t come on. I was also disappointed in mumsnet that an organisation that deals with so many issues relating to children abuse currently around, were not posed many questions that didn’t rely solely on a tiny amount of kids that are transgender.

I’ve already said I don’t support self ID (thus the organisations implementing this) so I don’t know why you’re all hounding me as if I’m fully on board with girl guides decisions or whatever.

I don’t think transwoman are all stereotypes at all? The ones I worked with wore jeans and minimal makeup with their hair tied back.. what is this a stereotype of? The ones you see shouting about may we’ll be, they are a very small sample.

My point was not homophobic, responding with ‘you could say that about lesbians if you want to use that arguement’ type statement in response to thinking transwoman are interested in your body.

Shall I start shouting transphobic every time you guys question anything? Oh wait I can’t, I’m not allowed to say anything bad about any of you (and I haven’t called anyone transphobic or bigoted) but you can all judge and say as much as you like about me, cus that’s how it all works. I thought that was a man thing tbh.

Shall I start shouting transphobic every time you guys question anything? Oh wait I can’t, I’m not allowed to say anything bad about any of you (and I haven’t called anyone transphobic or bigoted) but you can all judge and say as much as you like about me, cus that’s how it all works. I thought that was a man thing tbh.

Eh?

I don’t think transwoman are all stereotypes at all? The ones I worked with wore jeans and minimal makeup with their hair tied back.. what is this a stereotype of? The ones you see shouting about may we’ll be, they are a very small sample.

early the stereotype doesn't have to be clothes. What else can it possibly be, other than a stereotype?

They can't actually become a physical woman. So what's left?

A fully transitioned transwoman has no penis to rape you with or flash you with

Male threat is about power. That's why Karen Jones' victim thought she was going to die, despite the fact that the reason Karen Jones didn't actually commit the rape was because she couldn't get an erection.

I’ve already said I don’t support self ID (thus the organisations implementing this) so I don’t know why you’re all hounding me as if I’m fully on board with girl guides decisions or whatever.

No-one thinks you're fully on board. It was about you saying that if all these extremists are implementing policy, have you tried talking to the organisations concerned?

Yes, we have. All of them. Over and over. It's made no difference.

Male threat is about power. That's why Karen Jones' victim thought she was going to die, despite the fact that the reason Karen Jones didn't actually commit the rape was because she couldn't get an erection.

Indeed. The 3 teenage boys - classmates - who sexually assaulted my friend on the way home from school didn't use their penises...

. I was also disappointed in mumsnet that an organisation that deals with so many issues relating to children abuse currently around, were not posed many questions that didn’t rely solely on a tiny amount of kids that are transgender.

It's not about kids who are transgender! Its about the wholesale obliteration of safeguarding because of an ideology!!!

You might as well complain why are women talking to women aid about the small number of men who are rapists.

Strewth.

Strewth

None so blind, Datun, none so blind.

A fully transitioned transwoman has no penis to rape you with or flash you with, that’s why I mentioned it in response to the whole ‘I don’t want a penis in my changing room’ obviously.

Should men who have lost their genitals through injury or disease also use the female toilets if they wish? Lack of penis doesn't make you female.

Early, I must say I admire your perseverance.

I was also disappointed in mumsnet that an organisation that deals with so many issues relating to children abuse currently around, were not posed many questions that didn’t rely solely on a tiny amount of kids that are transgender

All my questions, FYI, were indeed about gender-questioning children. I wanted to know why guidance for schools produced by adult activists put the very children they are advocating for outside current safeguarding frameworks and therefore at increased risk of abuser infiltration.

So, in my book, I have more genuine concern for these kids than adult TRAs do - and more, frankly, than you do too, since you're here moaning at us about it despite being clearly ignorant of the facts on the ground.

. I was also disappointed in mumsnet that an organisation that deals with so many issues relating to children abuse currently around, were not posed many questions that didn’t rely solely on a tiny amount of kids that are transgender.

Safeguarding protects all children.
The people arguing for children to have the ability to consent to life changing surgery and sterilisation at young ages (age five by the way is where mermaids say children have autonomy) are placing all children in danger - because if a child can consent to something so fundamental what else can they consent to? Sex perhaps?

They are endangering all children because they advocate confidential disclosure, whoch goes against the very basics of safeguarding.

The TRA aims will, by design or accident, destroy child safeguarding. That has a potential impact on all children.

If you think confidential disclosure is ok, I’d like to hear your reasoning

If you think removing parental rights from parents (whoch can currently only be done by the courts, but will be able to be done by teachers and others) is a good thing, I’d like to hear your reasoning.

If you think a five year old can consent to sterilisation and life altering drug/surgical intervention I’d like to hear your reasoning.

If you think all the parties pushing so hard for the age of competence to consent for children to be lowered are benign, you’re naive. But I’d like to hear your reasoning all the same.

This is not a benign movement. It has demands which will impact on women and children - and yet allow men muchbincreased access to women’s bodies and children.

Male threat is about power. That's why Karen Jones' victim thought she was going to die, despite the fact that the reason Karen Jones didn't actually commit the rape was because she couldn't get an erection.

Yes. After Karen Jones gagged her with a lemon and physically overpowered her, because male.

I was also disappointed in mumsnet that an organisation that deals with so many issues relating to children abuse currently around, were not posed many questions that didn’t rely solely on a tiny amount of kids that are transgender.

So you agree that self ID and related trans ideology is harmful. You think people should sit down and talk to the organisations that support it. But you don’t think people should ask questions on a web chat?

It doesn’t matter how many trans people there are. The loss of the ability to recognise biological sex is a pretty massive issue, wouldn’t you say?

I can see why someone might think that is an exaggeration - it is all a bit unbelievable - until you look at advice given to schools, the people advising them etc. etc.

I was also disappointed in mumsnet that an organisation that deals with so many issues relating to children abuse currently around, were not posed many questions that didn’t rely solely on a tiny amount of kids that are transgender

What question did you ask early?

I didnt ask any question if that helps so its not a trick question

And I agree with Bowl, issues surrounding age of consent and parent access to information affect everyone.

If information is withheld from a child’s legal guardian, who is responsible for the child? These aren’t inconsequential things.

What’s the key reason you would not want be in the same toilet as a trans person?

Early, personally, I would not mind. But I am also the kind of person who had a laughing fit when it turned out someone had put a camera into one stall at our uni, because I imagined what type of a pathetic guy would do that.

I do, however, feel quite alarmed about the possibility that someone like transwoman Jonathan Yaniv would make good on her phantasies - shared in a chatroom for women and girls - to bond in the bathroom with ten year olds about the tampons the kid uses, asking them to have the kid's tampon (to bond over menstruation) and asking the 10 year old whether to help her insert the tampon.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2018/11/08/cant-take-no-for-an-answer-jonathan-yaniv-files-16-human-rights-complaints-against-women-who-dont-want-to-wax-his-balls/

With telling girls that TWAW, some might be too flabbergasted to resist if someone like Yaniv tries to 'bond with them on the toilet' as he envisions.

Anyway, it is great that you brought up this brilliant idea that we just need to explain to all those organizations, what the risks of self-ID are. Clearly, nobody ever thought about that and we've just been bitching about those institutions instead on mumsnet, because that is what silly mums, who do not know how the world works, do.

And these issues aren’t easy. Everything seemed so straightforward in the 80’s - ‘awful’ Victoria Gillick not respecting her child’s autonomy.

But back then all children were safe as long as they knew about ‘stranger danger’. It’s more complicated now.

No I did not say it’s not important, of course I don’t support transitioning a 5 year old. My 5 year old ate mud yesterday. Equally I do not think anything should be kept from the guardians under 16 unless safety is concerned.

I’m not saying the issues are not important, I was saying that given the NSPCC deal with issues of child abuse, and were in a country with rising numbers of online abusers, grooming gangs and obviously neglect and pysical abuse are so prominent - when I went onto the chat, I was surprised that a forum filled with mothers only wanted to discuss transgenderism which is very minor in the scheme of things (although equally valid concerns) I will admit that I was disappointed about that. As an early teenager I was doing things I shouldn’t be, looking back my guardians did fail to keep me safe - I was interested in how to prevent the same happening to my own daughter.

I didn’t contribute to that thread, I wanted to but I did feel like my questions wouldn’t matter as it was clear the route it was taking. Maybe that was my biological conditioning, to just stay silent as your voice won’t be heard over the people shouting.

What else can it possibly be, other than a stereotype? They can't actually become a physical woman. So what's left?

I obviously don’t speak for all trans people by any means and can only speak of my friends experience. He felt like his body was wrong, his vagina depressed him and he would cut it over and over again. When he started having periods, it was emotionally killing him. He said it never felt right, he used to borrow his mums sports bra that was way to small to try and bind his breasts down, in sports lessons he always wore a vest and shorts under his trousers - you could tell he wasn’t comfortable in his own skin, his hair was already short, he already wore men’s clothes, he already played on a football team that he still does (didn’t say he was trans just asked to join) to the outside eye all that changed was his stubble. This wasnt about appearance but about him and how he felt. You’re right that how can one ‘feel like a Male’ or female but he always said that all he knew was he wasn’t a woman and he was felt like his body did not match him. He lived with this all for many years, attempting to take his life as his father didn’t accept it. Once he started taking hormones and grew facial hair he was visibly so much happier - no more hiding himself away, he wasn’t completely happy until he said full surgery though.

Early it’s great that your friend has found a happier way to live.

It’s great that Muslim women can swim at female only swim sessions.

I can support measures to promote inclusion without believing that Muslim women need to be segregated or that your friend is male.

The problem would be if I were only able to attend segregated swimming sessions (not happening) or if there were a political movement forcing me to agree that your friend is male (happening).

I obviously don’t speak for all trans people by any means and can only speak of my friends experience. He felt like his body was wrong, his vagina depressed him and he would cut it over and over again. When he started having periods, it was emotionally killing him. He said it never felt right, he used to borrow his mums sports bra that was way to small to try and bind his breasts down, in sports lessons he always wore a vest and shorts under his trousers - you could tell he wasn’t comfortable in his own skin,

Early is there even the smallest part of you that reads what you have written and thinks this might about expectations, or a psychological disassociation with one's body?

That 'really being male' isn't actually it?

And, additionally, do you see the difference between your friend opting out of womanhood, and a man opting in.

And can you understand that the power dynamic makes it different?

I have the deepest sympathy for your friend. Born in the wrong body, they're not.

Dealing with their issues by presenting as the opposite sex, is understandable.

Did you know that Stephanie Davis Arai has said she has yet to see a girl transition who wasn't either autistic, a lesbian or had suffered from some kind of sexual trauma. Or a combination. Does that mean anything to you?

his hair was already short, he already wore men’s clothes, he already played on a football team that he still does (didn’t say he was trans just asked to join)

You say you aren’t talking about stereotypes, but I don’t understand which bits of this have anything to do with sex or gender.

I’m not saying the issues are not important, I was saying that given the NSPCC deal with issues of child abuse, and were in a country with rising numbers of online abusers, grooming gangs and obviously neglect and pysical abuse are so prominent - when I went onto the chat, I was surprised that a forum filled with mothers only wanted to discuss transgenderism which is very minor in the scheme of things (although equally valid concerns) I will admit that I was disappointed about that.

Then you need to start thinking.

Where NSPCC are doing work to cover child safeguarding, why would mothers argue with it?

Where NSPCC is both contradicting and undermining its own work in child safeguarding, why wouldn't mothers argue with it?

And when NSPCC runs away rather than address clear conflicts and clear holes in the safeguarding it recommends to institutions, why wouldn't mothers argue with it?

You can ignore the undermining of safeguarding frameworks if you like. But coming around here and remonstrating with us for not ignoring this clear danger to children - including gender-questioning children - is just fucking incredible.

Rather than spending all this time here spouting such bollocks, why don't you actually inform yourself and work to persuade organisations to properly protect the next generation of children like your friend? Because it's you throwing them to the wolves, not us.