Great blog about being a trans inclusive feminist

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Here: alicenuttallbooks.wordpress.com/2018/11/04/why-i-am-a-trans-inclusive-feminist/

Enjoy!

Now that the internet has taught me about the extent to which some men fetishize tampons I never want to change one with a male human in the next cubicle.

A male human cannot have a female body.

Earlywalker Sat 10-Nov-18 09:58:30
I think more unisex provision would be good for everyone.
I think a lot could be solved by more mixed sex.

I wish you would actually engage with people and listen instead of just repeating the same tired litany.

Mixed sex spaces are associated with an increased amount of attacks on women so no, they dont solve anything for women.

What we want is baby changing in every room, and the option of mixed sex or single sex.
Where that is not practical then make the mens mixed sex and leave the women alone.

@Earlywalker Please stop being evasive and just explain, why is that not acceptable to you?

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

You just completely contradicted yourself. I said MORE mixed sex, I didn’t say only mixed sex.

And you wish I’d engage with people? That’s exactly what I’ve been doing. Answering people’s questions and stating my POV. Just because it’s not the same opinion as yours doesn’t make it less valid. That would make you a narcissist.

Sorry to be a crashing bore, but, to go back to the Islamic law thing, while the Grand Ayatollah Khamenei legally recognised transitioning MtF solely within the Twelver branch of Shi'a Islam that is far from uncontroversial. In fact, Iranian Grand Ayatollah Tabrizi (who was also a well respected leader of the same branch of Islam) stated that trangenderism is against the Quran and the law of God because it denies God's sovereign will with regard to the body. Being homosexual is still illegal in Iran, and punishable by death, where sex reassignment surgery and legal recognition of change of sex is ok. This is seen by many LGB groups as an attempt to both "trans the gay away" and a way to impose further control over LGB people. A sort of gay conversion therapy on a countrywide level.

In Egypt it is illegal to be homosexual and transgender. Whatever some university lecturers might have to say about it. In Egypt as well, rape is almost never reported, because it is seen as the woman's fault.

In many countries where being homosexual is punishable by death, by transing is allowed, women are also held responsible if they are raped or sexually assaulted. And by that, I mean legally, not just as in elsewhere where women are just told they're responsible for what men do to them. Which I think raises some difficult questions as well?

Anyway, as you were.

how do you all feel about a fully transitioned transwoman using the woman’s facilities if you knew she was a transwoman? I.e, had a female body

A male doesn't ever have a "female" body. It's not possible to change sex.

Thanks Melanippe.

Eyes wide shut.

That's interesting, melanippe

how do you all feel about a fully transitioned transwoman using the woman’s facilities if you knew she was a transwoman? I.e, had a female body

I don't understand this. Hating your penis and cutting it off doesn't make you less sexist or understand and respect women, does it?

melanippe that’s already been explained several times and I’ve also said several times that I don’t agree with practices in those countries - or Islam’s views on homosexuality and their attitudes to woman. I think it’s damaging. However my point was it was the most recent statement on transgender individuals said by someone who can make Islamic rulings.
Just because someone is Muslim, does not mean that they see transwoman as men. Just like they don’t have to believe that they are not men. But stating continuously that transwoman are so damaging for Muslims, imply that all Muslims see them as solely men rather than transwoman, when under Islamic law transgender Was classed as something your born with and they would not see that as a man. As I’ve said many times, individuals see things differently and a Muslim woman (just like any other woman) can make her own decisions.

You’re all avoiding my question now aren’t you? Ok I shall reword it to a transgender woman who is post surgery.

how do you all feel about a fully transitioned transwoman using the woman’s facilities if you knew she was a transwoman?

you said you don't want men in the ladies toilets?
how about if I wear a skirt?
how about if I take hormones and grow breasts?
how about if I undergo serious cosmetic surgery on my genitals?
how about if I...??

It's just a no to men in women's single sex spaces from me.

I used to think I was all cool and OK with it, and then I recognised it for what it is, men constantly trying to push women's boundaries

so no, no, no. I do not consent to sharing toilets that are designed to be unisex with men I don't know

I wonder if it's ever occurred to Early to ask Muslim women how they feel about seeing cocks in their changing rooms. I know quite a few, and "absolutely horrified" would be an understatement.

You’re all avoiding my question now aren’t you? Ok I shall reword it to a transgender woman who is post surgery.

Eh? No, no man is a woman, irrespective of surgery.

I really don't want to piss on anyone's parade here at all, but the suggestion that because a few Islamic scholars have said that Allah approves of transing, Muslim women should just suck up all those years of being told to have nothing to do with men is over egging the cake a bit.

I do not want cocks in my changing rooms, Sam I Am. No matter how many bloody times you ask.

how do you all feel about a fully transitioned transwoman using the woman’s facilities if you knew she was a transwoman? I.e, had a female body

Couldn’t care less.

But, this doesn’t apply to most trans women with a GRC, so it’s not clear how relevant that would be unless you wanted to make laws around obtaining a GRC stricter.

Early yes, I understood that's what you were saying. I was stating the facts as they are right now. Yes, a Muslim woman can decide that she believes that a trans woman is an actual woman. However, if something goes wrong with that assumption, which is a real risk now we have de facto self ID in the UK, that same Mulim woman will be held responsible not only for her personal beliefs based on a tiny minority of Islamic thought, but for whatever has gone horribly wrong.

I do hope that's clearer for you.

Muslim women should just suck up all those years of being told to have nothing to do with men is over egging the cake a bit.

It's on a par with women abuse too, something to do with them being sentenced less, and the usual ok, what if they've done this, how about that, okay what about this.

A million different, disparate scenarios in order to try and see which one will allow men to squeeze themselves into women's spaces.

Women's Boundaries and A Million Ways to Ignore Them.

Again melanippe not what I’ve said. Never said any woman should suck it up. Simply stated what was said. And as you’re so clued up on Islam, you’ll know that academic scholars make up the group that create rulings within islam.

So even if the person had no penis you still wouldn’t accept them peeing in the toilet next to you or getting changed in the cubical next to you? That’s very interesting. It certainly shows proves this is not just about the ‘stonewall trans.’ It is all transpeople.

Yes, a Muslim woman can decide that she believes that a trans woman is an actual woman.

And that isn’t really how religion and belief works, hence people being burned at stake because of refusal to recant.

Earlywalker

If you are really arguing for a mixed sex space in addition to the women only space, wheres the problem?
The Muslim women who don't see people with penises as women will be in the women only room. Those who dont see it as a problem van choose to use the mixed sex room.
See how simple that is?

It is all transpeople

it's not all trans people

as far as I'm concerned biological women are welcome in the ladies loo

if they've taken a bunch of hormones and now have male pattern baldness and beard, well they may get challenged. they've taken a decision which will make their life more difficult in some ways and need to live with the consequences

if those women wish to access all male spaces, that is a negotiation they need to have with men

Luckily in the UK, we do not abide by sharia law. This is a much deeper issue though, the fact that any group could hold a woman accountable for her own rape/sexual abuse is utterly disgusting and I will not empower those people by using them as a victim in a trans argument. I was heavily involved in helping Muslim woman in the UK escape DA and similar and I think that is a very feminist issue that needs us to stand up against, but we won’t do that and instead will fight to be inclusive of Muslim people’s oppression as it helps to oppress transgender people.