Great blog about being a trans inclusive feminist

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Here: alicenuttallbooks.wordpress.com/2018/11/04/why-i-am-a-trans-inclusive-feminist/

Enjoy!

Earlywalker

That's an America article.

These screenshots are by the man who is suing 20 odd women in Canada for refusing to wax his penis and balls. The fact they only wax women is the basis of his claim.

He is being supported by the British Columbia Human Rights Tribunal.

One of the woman, a single mother who operates from home (as they nearly all do, which is why he targets them) was refused representation by 26 lawyers because of fears of being called transphobic.

Stop enabling people like this.

Jess Bradly seems like a terrible person tbh, there are unfortunately lots of them in this world. My understanding was that they flashed in public places though, not female only spaces? Like a lot of Male flashers. I may be wrong though - still Disgusting. Trans people aren’t exempt from being assholes, they are normal people. Some good, some bad.

I said someone who fancies woman will have more interest in a woman’s body than someone who is attracted to men.

I don't have any interest in people's bodies if I'm not attracted to them. I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make here and how it's relevant to sex segregated spaces?

See I don’t think it’s fair to say transpeople are their gender identity in some cases and their biological sex in others if they suffer from dysphoria. I can’t see how it would help to never be sure where you stand.

I don’t think many people as so inconsiderate they would upsettingly misgender someone like your friend to prove a point. However when people are talking about things on a population level, being truthful is really important.

Why do you want to compel my 12 year old niece to get comfortable with seeing penises in women's spaces?

And, indeed, why would you want to compel any woman to see penises in a space where she could formerly expect there to be done? What kind of person would consider that to be a reasonable thing to do, and what does it tell us about their priorities?

My point was exactly what you’ve just said QuentinWinters that just because they are a transwoman does not mean they are ogling you. It was in response to another comment in the thread.

Jess Bradley not only allegedly committed the offence of indecent exposure, their website was called Exhibitionizm. (Where they recommended flashing to boys and had cartoon kids being raped.)

But now they can just do the whole thing legitimately without anyone being able to say anything.

As can every voyeur, exhibitionist, flasher in the country.

And any paedophile.

The estimate is that there are 64,000 female child sex abusers in the UK currently, what Is in place to prevent them watching your daughter undress?

4/5 sex offenders are Male yes, only 1% of the population are transgender. I’m not dismissing that it’s a system that will be open to abuse, but it’s such a minute number of people we should be looking into ways to stop pedophiles from being in vulrenable spaces. You stated Jess wanted to flash to boys, he’s got a penis so that would be far easier in the men’s changing rooms, so how do we also protect our sons from the Likes of Jess?

However I think once they have become a transwoman, it is not fair to consistently refer to them as men. I understand not referring to them as woman exclusively, but to continue calling them men just seems like deliberately dismissing their identity.

Happy to call a trans woman a trans woman. In real life I would have no reason to mention their maleness unless they are in the wrong single sex area.

Earlywalker

You really think there is only a 'minute' number of men who would jump at legitimately accessing female locker rooms?

You're clutching at straws, Early, and I think you know it.

If a transwoman would like to avoid having me point out that they're male then it would probably be an excellent idea to avoid showing me their penis.

So you're basically arguing now that because women are sexual abusers, we should not have any sex segregation at all, because what's the point?

We can go right ahead and take your accusation that I'm twisting your words as read, if that helps move us forward to where you articulate what solution you think actually works.

What I'm reading is that you would prefer to have no sex segregation in order to accommodate the c. 5000 people in the UK who have a GRC. I don't think that's proportionate or necessary. And it all goes out of the window if we have sex self-ID anyway.

Ok early, when transwomen start insisting that they are transwomen rather than women then I may manage to go through life with less confusion and less need to remind you that they are men, which you find so hateful.

As an aside I find the statement “twaw” bullying and misogynistic. Ditto any assumptions on my gender identity.( lack of)

Then I can go back to be8ng supportive in general of them finding ways to live their lives fully, free from any discrimination in a way that does not significantly negatively impact unecessarily any other group of people

Saying they are women when there were assumed to be a few thousand of them was one thing...the significance of any effect was small, such that case by case assessment would be reasonable, when you have half a million that easy , under the carpet, way of handl8ng things is no longer ok.

Actually I also th8 k it is detrimental to transpeople as it makes it much harder to really monitor discrimination

should any collected data show significant differences in behaviour of men and transwomen I would be happy for that to be taken into account when looking at the provision of single sex spaces.

I tell you what won't protect our sons from the likes of Jess - letting Jess and others have free access to our daughters.

Good grief.

I’m not clutching at straws at all. It seems that facts and statistics are only listened too/commented on when they paint trans people in a bad light.

Does the 64,000 female child sex abusers in the UK worry you? When changing with your daughter, do you ever wonder about who you are openly showing her off to? Or do you ever worry that they might be a bad person?

Statistically, you’re far more likely to have been getting changed in front of a female abuser than a transgender one. Believing the world is safe because only vaginas can enter your space is naive imo.

No one should be scared to use a changing room because of who might be in there, but until the government finds a way of tagging everyone that may be a bad person and stopping them having access to any space, you’re not safe unfortunately.

I understand not wanting to get changed next to a man with a penis and it would surely be classed as a criminal offence (flashing) unless they held a GRC, which under the current guidelines is gender dysphoria. As you say there are only 5000 of those issued, I believe the majority of them issued are FTM trans.

I’ve not seen any cases in the UK of a transwoman flashing in a female only space - but I’m sure you will all enlighten me of these.

Someone being a transwoman doesn’t mean that they are ogling you, just because they were born male and attracted to woman.

For me the problem is relative physical power. It’s also the reason I hated sending my 8 year old son off to the men’s changing room without an adult when we went swimming.

I think all parties should have their voices heard, including trans people who can’t take part in sports because of lack of provision of suitable facilities.

I would imagine that a lot of trans people avoid gyms completely if they have to change in an open changing area. My experience is that cubicles aren’t always available.

The problem is that at the moment there is no discussion because there is no problem as long as you just agree that TWAW.

If someone with a penis getting undressed to me has a GRC it makes no difference at all, since neither I nor anyone else is allowed to ask to see the GRC or even ask if they have one. So in effect we're being asked to assume that anyone we see in a women's changing room with a penis has a GRC, which would be a very naive thing indeed to assume.

Where does the 64,000 female abuser figure come from?

There are 120 women in prison for sex offences. And 14,000 men. If there are 64,000 female abusers in this country, then presumably there something in the region of 7 million men?

If you're saying there is that number, that just haven't been convicted?

I’m not saying protect our sons by handing over our daughters

I’m saying that there are BAD people in the world, some are men, some are woman and shock some are transpeople because they are PEOPLE and people can be bad. Denying all transpeople access to any space does not prevent all bad people being in your spaces, it may prevent some, but it also prevents the genuine trans people too who have battled gender dysphoria and want to get on with their lives.

I understand not wanting to get changed next to a man with a penis and it would surely be classed as a criminal offence (flashing) unless they held a GRC,

This is SO ridiculous! And you can't see it.

What the man says makes no difference.

Your insistence of seeing this all through the eyes of men is so misogynistic.

64,000? Where’s that figure from?

I mean, would anyone really be surprised if there were that many male abusers? The abusers who're actually convicted are the tip of the world's most loathsome iceberg.

What's never been in any doubt is that males commit sexual offenses at a rate many orders of magnitude above females, and there's no evidence at all that trans identification makes a particular male less likely to be a danger to those around them than any other male.

So a piece of paper makes the swinging of a dick ok?

How? Same dick.

I’m not saying protect our sons by handing over our daughters

You are saying protect trans women by removing womens rights.
If you don't understand thats what you are saying, maybe try listening more, as the law does not say what you think it does.

We are saying protect trans women by providing them with their own service.
If you don't understand thats not demonising people then you don't understand safeguarding.