Great blog about being a trans inclusive feminist

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Here: alicenuttallbooks.wordpress.com/2018/11/04/why-i-am-a-trans-inclusive-feminist/

Enjoy!

Did you miss the bit about there being no central authority for Islam?

I just don't think their definition of a man who is now a woman extends to trans women who haven't had reconstructive surgery.

Indeed. Don't expect Earlywalker to grasp that though.

Yes, the Williams Institute are a think tank focused on gender issues, as I said. So... TRAs, although I didn’t use the word.

And the analysis in the study is what I described it to be. That study would not get past peer review in any normal academic field.

The law was passed through by scholars at Egypt’s Al-Azhar university, which is the oldest university and known as ‘Sunni Muslims most prestigious university.’

Again, not an expert on muslim law, but I suspect the world would be a lot more peaceful if things were that simple.

Earlywalker

Can you answer my question? Do you think it's progressive to outlaw homosexuality and force gay people to transition? Because your support for Iranian laws implies that you do.

EarlyWalker, there are a number of different 'schools' in Islam, besides the Sunni/Shia distinction, and rulings can vary from Imam to Imam.

It's not like Catholicism which has the Magisterium which is able to definitively say what all of Catholic Doctrine is.

So essentially what you're saying to Muslim women who have a problem with being alone with a man who thinks he is a woman is "Don't worry, I found a random who thinks it's fine." It doesn't hold any water at all. Given that quite a few Muslim women would not be happy to shake a man's hand, why would you think they would be cool being in a sex-segregated space with them?

Did you miss the bit about there being no central authority for Islam?

Are you aware of Ijma?

Can you answer my question? Do you think it's progressive to outlaw homosexuality and force gay people to transition? Because your support for Iranian laws implies that you do.

No of course I don’t. But to be perfectly honest I don’t support the majority of Muslim laws that woman are forced to follow. Having to cover hair and not being allowed to be alone with men either. I’m presuming you all do, since you can’t bear the thought of them being in the same toilet as a transwoman?

Are you aware of Ijma?

No, but I am not not shocked to learn from wikipedia that there is much disagreement about its relevance.

I can't think of any major world religion that agrees on one set of doctrinal teachings.

I’m presuming you all do, since you can’t bear the thought of them being in the same toilet as a transwoman?

No I don't. But I don't support forcing these women out of public life. Which is what you support.

So, your solution to 'liberating' Muslim women from rules which you think oppress them is to make wider society even more difficult for them to participate in.

I really don't think you are getting this women's liberation thing...

By the Islamic statement

There is no such creature as an "Islamic statement". There are fatwas, which are judgements but they are judgements and not legally binding or universal in any way, shape or form.

It's truly desperate.

I don’t want anyone forced out of public life. I think if they would have that much of an issue, using a disabled toilet could well be the answer.
What I’m saying is that if a Muslim woman were to look into it, as she was unsure if she was breaking her faith if there’s a transwoman in the toilet, she would find that lots of people in authority within the Muslim community do not see transgender people as the sex they were born with.
She is entitled to hold whatever personal view she wishes, everyone is. She’s allowed to not be happy about it and choose not too, but in terms of religion - there is lots of evidence that sharing a toilet with a transwoman will not see her punishable within Islam.

Isn’t that exactly what you are all doing? Or are you all Muslims? The hypocracy.
Is it REALLY beyond your understanding that women from Muslim families post on here?? Why do you think that everyone is Anglo??
And it's not ABOUT what Sharia law says ffs or what YOU think Muslim women need. Fwiw there is a strong tradition of sisterhood in middle eastern countries that has nothing much to do with Islam anyway. It's about comfort, privacy and solidarity. And being able to talk away from men's opinions.

All women have the right to have female only spaces.

But to be perfectly honest I don’t support the majority of Muslim laws that woman are forced to follow

Me neither. However, I don't understand why I can't be a catholic priest because of religious exceptions to the Equalities law, but a Muslim woman can't have single sex spaces on the basis of exceptions that exist (religion, sex), apparently because this is discrimination on the basis of gender reassignment.

With no test cases and many organisations (schools, LAs, charities) following advice given by Stonewall, this is the current status quo. We have already moved beyond legislation in the 2004 EA, legally or not.

What I’m saying is that if a Muslim woman were to look into it, as she was unsure if she was breaking her faith if there’s a transwoman in the toilet, she would find that lots of people in authority within the Muslim community do not see transgender people as the sex they were born with.

Would you also be advising Methodists to check what the Pope says? Generally religion doesn't work that way. See Northern Ireland, Spanish Inquisition, England Civil War, Henry VIII etc. etc.

So Muslim women should use the disabled toilets if they don't want to share with men...where are the disabled people supposed to go?
All this so men can get what they want? Because the men's is just too dangerous for them?
Ridiculous. I'm done.

I think if they would have that much of an issue, using a disabled toilet could well be the answer.

Or maybe, to avoid taking up space in the disabled loo, special single sex toilets for women who don't want to share toilets with men?

The difference is, catholic priests do not have their own facilities in every building. Would you support a Muslim only bathroom? After all, for all we know All religions are just made up. The only evidence of any god is a ‘feeling’ after all. Why should they be entitled to decide what they’re comfortable with and what not?

Do you see where I’m going with this? I absolutely support religious freedom, but why are we so concerned with supporting Religious ‘feeling and beliefs’ over ‘feeling and beliefs’ of gender identiity? Who decides who’s feelings are more important?

Who decides who’s feelings are more important?

Quite. Just why exactly are men's feelings more important than women's?

I would also say to ‘stonewall trans’ as per current guidelines, they are not legally their new sex so need to use the toilets for their sex or again if an impact on mental health, the disabled toilets until provisions can be made for a third space which I would definitely support.

Not sure if you're aware of this, but since the implementation of the gender recognition act, only 5000 gender recognition certificates have been issued. Only 5000 people are legally the opposite sex.

The other 600,000 aren't.

Most TRAs don't have a certificate. They don't rely on it and don't consider it necessary. Because they rely on equality law.

They are already circumventing any diagnosis of gender dysphoria in order to be trans.

Many older transwomen tell us that in order to get a certificate, way back when, you had to sign to say you knew that you were male. Otherwise you didn't get the certificate. There was a lot of gatekeeping to weed out fetishists and transvestites. That has now pretty much gone, due to the memorandum of understanding, where you have to affirm at all costs. There was none of this TWAW. That is an invention buy a section of men determined to control women.

Earlywalker

“As early as 1988, gender reassignment surgery was declared acceptable under Islamic law by scholars at Egypt’s Al-Azhar, the world’s oldest Islamic university. In Iran, in 1987, Ayatollah Khomeini declared transgender surgical operations allowable. The basis for this attitude of acceptance is the belief that a person is born transgender but chooses to be homosexual, making homosexuality a sin“

Not that this is just about Islam but, you do know that you do not have to have genital reassignment surgery to be a transwoman? So my husband, with a fully functioning penis and beard, could show up at a swimming session for Muslim women and demand access? (Not that he would because my husband is not a dick). And if any of the women object they simply need to be 're-educated' into why my husband is a woman.

Isn’t that exactly what you are all doing?

Where have i stated what muslim women want?

I bet you dont even know what my views are on transwomen in toilets

Anyway im not going to respond to anything further you say early, not because im being mean but because i dont want you to think im being mean

Have a good day