Peak GC Moment?

[CantUnderstandNoThing]

I've namechanged for this because I'm a bit nervous of the vitriol I have seen directed at others with a differing opinion.

I know there's been a few threads with people sharing the moments they hit "peak trans", often citing individuals (Karen, Lily etc) or moments that led them to their GC beliefs.

I've realised I've hit peak GC, or perhaps peak t--f would be more appropriate, and I was wondering if anyone else has? For me, the peaking moment was the interview with India and Posie. I felt very uncomfortable with how offensive and discriminatory Posie's argument was. And really, it just came across as hateful. I realised I didn't want to be aligned with that.

The issues of violence towards women, safe spaces and the issues in women's sport are obviously very important and absolutely need discussion but the current angle of "women don't have penises" isn't helping that at all (imo obviously).

Anyone else feel the same? Or starting to feel the same?

You're assuming that we think of trans people as being a threat.

That's a big broad brush stroke to assume about everybody.

If I knew and liked somebody, and a year later found out they were trans, why would that affect how I felt about them?

Not wanting the law to change to erase the definition of biological sex has nothing to do with how you feel about trans people as individuals.

And if it isn't about stereotypes, what makes you think she passes so well? Assumptions people make about you are always based on stereotypes they hold.

Stereotypically feminine gender expression is what helps transwomen pass - clothing, hair, make-up...

now suddenly 'feeling like a woman' actually transforms you into one. How in hell did that happen?

The rise of 'inclusivity' and wokeness coinciding with the retribution that comes from the woke and inclusive from critical thinkers.

It's very Orwellian.

It reminds me of a quote I saw on twitter- You only gave me the shirt off your back, I wanted your skin.

YY.

I am horrified by all the "woman charged with pedophile assault", "woman charged with murder" headlines when clearly we can all see that the person in question is not really a woman.

"Woman wins business award", "more women on boards", "more women in tech", "woman selected to represent us politically"... also, a growing number are simply not women! And so we are not genuinely achieving increased representation in these areas, it is a sham that makes it look as if women are gaining entry into new areas whereas in reality, the 'acceptable' face of womanhood is now transgender (less time off work for having babies... essentially better because they are more like, well, men!)

It totally screws up the figures and it screws over, you guessed it, women.

Because biology just is, and sometimes it's horrible.

And that is a very good insight. Coming up against that can be a real shock, if you've always been taught that the world is a nice, kind place.

I have absolutely nothing against transgender or non-binary people, I just have a strong interest in defending the position of actual women. Who have endured centuries and centuries of sexism, which continues, and which we need to continue to be able to fight effectively.

MrsCupCake, do you have any concerns about self id? Medicalisation of 'trans' kids?

I notice that sadly transgender men do not seem to be achieving similar prominence and success, incidentally. It is, yet again, the men (sorry, women -- but the ones with penises) who win.

Exactly MsMotherOfDragons the erasure of "woman" meaning adult human female in the biological sense of all of those words as in female reproductive system, skews all sex stats. It makes it meaningless.

Legally that needs to be protected. It needs to mean something so we can be accurately represented.

And so that the Trans community can be accurately represented. If the Trans community are lumped in with women and men, how can their unique needs be adequately met and lobbied for?

*. MrsCupCake91 You've just neatly answered your own question there - no one has any idea of how it is to live life as someone else - so how can someone who believes they are 'born in the wrong body' (I'm not a fan of that phrase) say that they 'feel like a woman'?

Someone who is born male can never have an experience of 'being a woman'. In the same way, if I became a trans man, I would be exactly that, a trans man, but NOT a man and NOT an adult human male, because humans cannot change their sex *

On the contrary, you have proved the futility of that question. If someone feels an innate discomfort in their own body, and a sense they are a woman, how do you - someone who has never had that experience - prove it’s not valid? No-one can answer definitely what it is to be anything other than ourselves. The question defeats and supports both views.

On the contrary, you have proved the futility of that question. If someone feels an innate discomfort in their own body, and a sense they are a woman, how do you - someone who has never had that experience - prove it’s not valid?

What do you think this "sense" is like?

What is that sense though? You are reducing 'woman' to a feeling. Do you not see why so many people find that objectionable?

If someone feels an innate discomfort in their own body, and a sense they are a woman, how do you - someone who has never had that experience - prove it’s not valid?
Because they can never explain this feeling, and it's a feeling that women don't usually have. We are just biological women.

Fucksake, I don't give a monkey's about transgender people identifying and presenting however they choose. I am a completely live and let live person.

But the trans issue is being used as a wedge to curtail women's rights and protections, and mutilation and sterilization of children is collateral damage along the way, and that is simply not acceptable to any decent reading of competing rights scenarios.

To reiterate, your right to have girly chats with your transsexual friend in the Ladies does not override my right to protect my daughters from a movement that seeks to remove their right to be a lesbian, use all the female terms that apply exclusively to them, and not think they have to cut off their breasts to be allowed to have short hair.

None of us can describe a “sense.” It’s impossible. Why are you looking for trans people to come up with a categoric definition of what IT is, when 100 other women would fail the same task?

I don't believe in this sense then. Sorry.

The 100 other women don't claim to have a 'sense'.

But I'll ask again. Do you have any problem with selfid, medicalisation of trans kids?

If no one can describe the mystical sense of being a woman, then on what basis do you think it should be used to curtail women's rights, and perform medical experiments on children?

Again I haven't read all of this, but since two people vaguely replied to my post I want to talk please.

I don't disagree with everything Trump says just because he is Trump and that only shows you don't know me, or my position AT ALL. I am not a member of any political party and never will be, I know that voting for eg, is always a compromise of views. I feel like a lot of people on here don't understand that. I couldn't believe how many people on here said they were leaving Labour over all women shortlists. My local area in the UK has been decimated by the Tory party. Women are so vulnerable here. There is no way I would exclude Labour from my voting choices over self-id.

My problem with Trump is not what he has specifically done so far but the WAY he talks about people, not just trans people but immigrants, women. And the genuine hate crime that does result in.

I'm not okay with that. I don't think that makes me too nice.

And do you know, if I had been around at the time I would not have joined the NF to protest PIE, if that is the analogy we're going for. I would have stood next to them, doing my own protest but there is absolutely fuck a chance I would have joined forces with them.

I'm not an expert on any if these but I have run online campaigns before sometimes you have to be nice to people you don't agree with, and sometimes you ha e to distance yourself from people you do agree with because of the way they behave. That's just the reality of it.

Of course people can describe a sense.

We have an amazing, descriptive language at our disposal.

It's pretty easy to describe most things that we can feel.

I don't share an innate feeling of gender within myself. It's not a defining characteristic of being a human, let alone being a woman.

i can think of nothing more challenging to gender stereotypes than someone changing sex and gender.

You can’t change sex.

Gender is a social construct. Being a man and wearing makeup is challenging gender stereotypes. Being a man in a caring role is challenging gender stereotypes.

Being Male, and insisting you’re female because you ‘feel’ like a woman is casting those stereotypes in stone. Because what makes you feel you’re a woman? It ALWAYS comes down to a set of stereotypes because there is nothing else other than biology. And you can’t cant change biology.

A boy who likes pink, dolls and wants to be a primary school teacher is a boy. To tell them they must be a girl because of what the DO or LIKE or WEAR or LIKE or ACT LIKE is reinforcing stereotypes.

Transgenderism is the biggest reinforcer of gender stereotypes there is. If people genuinely want to smash those stereotypes by being a man or woman who doesn’t conform, then I am 100% behind them. But saying you’re the opposite sex because you conform to the stereotypes of the opposite sex is about as rigid stereotyping as it gets.

Ok. You’re saying you don’t believe this “sense” thing that they don’t fit their bodies.
Because I guess you’ve never felt it, so it can’t be true.
I would love to read Mumsnet in say 100 years where perhaps science has produced irrefutable proof that what trans people experience is very real - or even reached a stage where a treatment could change every chromosome or organ in the body. I suspect the heels in mentality of some would still claim that the Earth is flat. No matter what. Cest la vie.

On the contrary, you have proved the futility of that question. If someone feels an innate discomfort in their own body, and a sense they are a woman, how do you - someone who has never had that experience - prove it’s not valid? No-one can answer definitely what it is to be anything other than ourselves. The question defeats and supports both views.

Saying that someone's sense that they are a woman makes them one presupposes that such a sense objectively exists, is common to all women, and is what makes someone a woman.This simply isn't true. There is no thought, feeling or experience that all women (and no men) have in common. All we have in common is our membership of the female sex. Beyond that, we are individuals. You can't simultaneously argue that nobody truly knows how someone else feels and that it's possible to feel 'like a woman.'

Some people are very uncomfortable with their male bodies and those bodies feel wrong to them. I can sympathise with those people without agreeing that this sense of discomfort or alienation makes them women.

Then give me a definitive description of why you feel right as a woman, and what makes it so - which all other women will agree on. Our language is so rich!