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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Butterfly - Feedback from ITV to email complaint

360 replies

ShineyNewName5032 · 24/10/2018 13:21

As many on here have noted Butterfly is possibly one of the most controversial topics covered on ITV. I wrote to express my concerns this is the response:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email concerning ITV’s new drama series Butterfly.

The producers consulted with senior clinical psychologists as well as the charity Mermaids. Most importantly, they spoke to families and children about their own lived experiences. The programme does not “promote” Mermaids, although the charity is depicted in a handful of scenes across three episodes. It depicts the family being advised by a range of different professionals, and indeed being offered a range of different advice, both in this country and the United States.

We do not consider that the drama is irresponsible or could “lead to more suicides”. The drama depicts a nuanced and complex story of an unhappy child, whose feelings are increasingly distressing, and which are leading to self-harming. This reflects the lived experience of some young people who are not comfortable in their assigned gender, but we do not suggest that Maxine represents all young people in this situation. It is clear that our fictional families’ problems are complex, as Maxine’s parents both clearly wish to protect their child, but cannot agree on the best course of action, and this conflict is itself shown to be damaging to Maxine’s wellbeing.

Nevertheless, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie
Viewer Services Supervisor

OP posts:
Mrskeats · 25/10/2018 08:54

Puberty blockers sterilise kids. There is not a delaying effect. Then cross sex hormones finish the job. Why is this hard to comprehend? Look at nhs guidelines if you don’t believe me.
And what’s the Mary whitehouse obsession about? So childish.

Mrskeats · 25/10/2018 08:56

And if it’s not an illness why are you treating it medically?

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 08:56

Mrskeats, can I ask you what specific knowledge and experience you have of transgender young people?

RhythmStix · 25/10/2018 08:57

"do you really need to ask" - yes shineynewname I do because I haven't seen the programme and I am interested in why so many people are criticising it. Is that ok with you? I'm sorry if I'm not a member of your gang. Not that I want to be - there is so much bullying on this thread.

RiverTam · 25/10/2018 08:59

I've typed several responses, all of which would probably get deleted, so suffice to say that you've been well and truly indoctrinated by Mermaids, haven't you?

LangCleg · 25/10/2018 09:01

Splattering the board with ad hominems doesn't convince the lurkers. Jus' sayin'.

AspieAndProud · 25/10/2018 09:01

Mary Whitehouse was instrumental in raising the minimum age of Page 3 girls to 18.

Do you think she was wrong to believe that there should be a minimum age for girls to make life changing decisions regarding their bodies?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 25/10/2018 09:03

Right to transition without spouse's consent
Trans people absolutely do have this right. They can socially transition, take hormones etc without their spouses consent.

If they wish to obtain a GRC and their spouse objects they will need to get divorced first, which is absolutely correct. It is not fair on either party to allow someone to make a fundamental change to a contract without allowing the other party the ability to remove themselves from the contract.

Right not to be treated as mentally ill requiring 2 psychologists to refer them
Now this is not true. As above, this step is only required for a GRC, which in fact every transwoman I've come across throughout this mess doesn't have. People can dress as they like, call themselves what they like, behave as they like and do what they like to their bodies without going through this step.

If you want to make a fundamental change to a legal document (i.e. your birth certificate), some gatekeeping is appropriate

Need for prohibitive amount of documentation and financial cost that is out of reach of some homeless trans young people who have no parental support a result of their being trans

again, is a GRC and changing their birth certificate at the top of these people's list of priorities? They can adhere to the gender stereotypes associated with the opposite sex with little or no additional cost.

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 09:03

Rhythmstix are you Mrskeats?

CosmicCanary · 25/10/2018 09:03

Right to transition without spouse's consent

They already have that.
Spousel consent relates to marriage and dissolving or retaining it not whether the person needs their spouses permission to transition.

Right not to be treated as mentally ill requiring 2 psychologists to refer them

Given the amount of medical care a transperson may require and the dramatic unchangeable affects it will have is it not ethical to ensure a person is of sound mind?
For my abortion i also needed 2 Drs to sign off on it.

Need for prohibitive amount of documentation and financial cost that is out of reach of some homeless trans young people who have no parental support a result of their being trans.

Things cost money. Everyone has to pay for things like name changes, death certs, passports, birth certificates. Transpeople can have their income means tested so they receive a significant reduction in cost for their GRC.

Why should it be free when its not free for everyone else?

Sorry but none of what you have listed are legal rights. They are wants.

AspieAndProud · 25/10/2018 09:04

Mrskeats, can I ask you what specific knowledge and experience you have of transgender young people?

I’m not a doctor and I don’t have diabetes but I can answer the question why doctors treat diabetes medically.

Why don’t you answer the question. Why treat a condition medically if it is not a medical problem?

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 09:06

Cosmic Canary I suppose you don't believe in a woman's right to choose to have an abortion, judging by your arguments

CosmicCanary · 25/10/2018 09:07

Cosmic Canary I suppose you don't believe in a woman's right to choose to have an abortion, judging by your arguments

Did you miss the part of my post where I said I had an abortion Fem?

You are getting desperate now.

MrsKCastle · 25/10/2018 09:11

Can I ask a question for supporters of Butterfly, like Feminist4?

Did you agree with the way the parents were portrayed at the beginning? I was quite shocked that they were shown as being so intolerant of gender non-conforming behaviour. Max was criticized and made to feel ashamed about his likes and interests. He wasn't allowed to choose his own clothes outside the house.

I wondered why they didn't choose to show a family where the child continued to insist they were the other sex despite loving acceptance of their personality. Wouldn't that have been more convincing and got more sympathy?

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 09:11

Of course I saw it. But you obviously think it's OK to have to get 2 doctors to sign off an abortion if you are using it in your anti trans argument.

Mrskeats · 25/10/2018 09:12

I work with young people
I have a detransitioned, regretful person in my family.
That ok for you feminist?
And the fact that you don't understand what blockers do clearly show you have no clue what you are talking about.
What do you think is being blocked?

LangCleg · 25/10/2018 09:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

CosmicCanary · 25/10/2018 09:14

Of course I saw it. But you obviously think it's OK to have to get 2 doctors to sign off an abortion if you are using it in your anti trans argument

Where did I say it was ok?

Highlighting it was to show you that transpeople are not treated differently by the law than any other person.

I am still not seeing the legal rights you keep telling me they dont have.

Mrskeats · 25/10/2018 09:14

And stop trying to cloud the argument with going on about abortion. Of course people need professional help whilst they make a huge, life-altering decision.

AspieAndProud · 25/10/2018 09:15

Hormone blockers are to delay puberty. It is about enabling youngsters to have time to make the decision and reduce the bodily changes of puberty.

They don’t ‘enable’ youngsters to have time to decide, they determine the decision. 100% of those put on puberty blockers will medically transition. The majority of those not on puberty blockers will not. Puberty blockers prevent the hormones released during puberty from correcting the dysphoria.

Aspie, why don't you start campaigning against plastic surgery instead?

I would oppose plastic surgery to ‘correct’ other ‘conditions’ such as being white, or black or Asian, which are analogous to ‘correcting’ your sex.

If you are talking about burn victims or cleft palates you are appropriating medical conditions and you keep insisting that transgenderism isn’t one.

larrygrylls · 25/10/2018 09:15

It seems strange to complain about a drama because you don’t agree with what you perceive to be the message.

It is on after the watershed, so children should not be watching. And it is a fictional drama, not a documentary.

If everything controversial were taken off air tv would be an extremely dull medium. Not sure I totally agree with the infanticide in Euripides Medea but I wouldn’t complain about were it screened after the watershed.

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 09:16

Well mrskeats. I don’t actually believe you. I’m saying I wish my trans daughter had taken blockers. They would have helped her, because she now has to overcome more prejudice as she has developed certain male characteristics she hates.

RiverTam · 25/10/2018 09:16

Mrs K Susie Green in her TED talk speaks of taking Jackie to the doctor's because he only wanted to play with 'girls' ' toys. She pathologised her son's personality. He had a homophobic father and a mother steeped in gender stereotypes.

RiverTam · 25/10/2018 09:18

larry it is completely based on Susie Green, who is a real person. It's thinly veiled propaganda for her organization.

RiverTam · 25/10/2018 09:18

how anyone could wish for the sterilisation of their child (or stepchild, in this case) I can't think.