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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Butterfly - Feedback from ITV to email complaint

360 replies

ShineyNewName5032 · 24/10/2018 13:21

As many on here have noted Butterfly is possibly one of the most controversial topics covered on ITV. I wrote to express my concerns this is the response:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email concerning ITV’s new drama series Butterfly.

The producers consulted with senior clinical psychologists as well as the charity Mermaids. Most importantly, they spoke to families and children about their own lived experiences. The programme does not “promote” Mermaids, although the charity is depicted in a handful of scenes across three episodes. It depicts the family being advised by a range of different professionals, and indeed being offered a range of different advice, both in this country and the United States.

We do not consider that the drama is irresponsible or could “lead to more suicides”. The drama depicts a nuanced and complex story of an unhappy child, whose feelings are increasingly distressing, and which are leading to self-harming. This reflects the lived experience of some young people who are not comfortable in their assigned gender, but we do not suggest that Maxine represents all young people in this situation. It is clear that our fictional families’ problems are complex, as Maxine’s parents both clearly wish to protect their child, but cannot agree on the best course of action, and this conflict is itself shown to be damaging to Maxine’s wellbeing.

Nevertheless, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie
Viewer Services Supervisor

OP posts:
Melamin · 25/10/2018 09:19

Puberty blockers only delay puberty when they are used for a limited time for children who have precious puberty then stopped.
If they are used to prevent puberty for a few years and then replaced with cross sex hormones they are not delaying puberty but preventing it from happening until the body’s own hormones can be substituted with artificial hormones and blocking natural hormones, and this is until the parts of the body that would produce these hormones can be removed.
Since these are the parts of the body that produce the gametes necessary to reproduce the person will be sterilised.
They need to understand this before they are caught up in the idea that they can change sex as this is how they will be for the rest of their lives and it is a long time. Since this has not been done to children until very recently there is little evidence of the long term results and consequences so they are a massive experiment.

Kardashianlove · 25/10/2018 09:21

But you obviously think it's OK to have to get 2 doctors to sign off an abortion
Genuinely really confused. Why wouldn’t anyone think it’s ok that 2 doctors are needed for an abortion to go ahead.
I would guess most people would feel reassured that such an important thing was being taken seriously and dealt with properly.

Mrskeats · 25/10/2018 09:21

To be honest feminist I don't give a monkey's what you believe.
You have little knowledge and when challenged resort to flinging insults. This is typical of Trans activists.
Totally agree River. All this pink and blue bollocks.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 25/10/2018 09:22

So Feminst4 is trollhunting at 9:16

my hand hovered over the report button as I don't believe Mrskeats should have to put up with that

however, on balance I think people should be allowed to see what kind of poster Feminist4 is

we're supposed to be polite to each other here Feminist4, it's practically the only virtue MNHQ value in their posters

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 09:22

Larrygrylls, the reason they hate the programme is because they don't believe in such a thing as transgender people being born in the wrong body. They claim that once born a boy you are a boy regardless. They think trans women are men taking over women's rights.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 25/10/2018 09:24

nice summary Feminist4

just change the word 'think' to 'understand' in the your post above and I think you've got it!

Mrskeats · 25/10/2018 09:24

Thanks Bernard
Oh good more born in the wrong body stuff.

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 09:25

Bernard, I have been reasonable all along. But yes, I find the anti trans stance on this board deplorable.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 25/10/2018 09:25

bunch of people, many of whom have been present at a 20 week scan understand that humans can't change sex

shocker!

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 25/10/2018 09:26

Bernard, I have been reasonable all along

Shock Grin

when you believe you are being unreasonable can you warn me so I can take cover?

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 09:28

Very anti trans, Bernard and very intolerant. I like to think the UK is a tolerant place, but increasingly I'm less sure.

larrygrylls · 25/10/2018 09:29

Feminist,

I kind of agree with them, I am afraid, although I do think there are more subtleties than they admit to. I also believe more in live and let live and treating others’ beliefs with respect, even when I do not share them.

There are, however, clearly competing rights here and a debate needs to be had over sport (should remain natal female only) and safe spaces (ditto, though I am not sure a bog is really a ‘safe space’).

Regardless of my belief on the subject though, dramas (even dramas based on fact) should be allowed to be made and shown. Good fiction helps us to think about difficult issues. If you strongly disagree, write a good drama with the opposite message and get it screened. Trying to censor drama is not the way ahead.

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 09:29

Bernard - strange name to choose, if you are a woman.

Kardashianlove · 25/10/2018 09:30

she has developed certain male characteristics she hates. so, so many boys hate developing make characteristics and so many girls hate developing female characteristics. They then usually come to terms with this but quite often not until well into their 20’s. Are you honestly saying that sterilisation is the answer to someone hating their body?! It’s so sad that people are advocating this for their children. What about a teenager who was adamant they never wanted children and the thought of getting pregnant was distressing and making them feel sucicdal. Would you sterilise them? I’m sure it has less medical risks than puberty blockers.

CosmicCanary · 25/10/2018 09:30

Fem
Number 1 on your lust of rights was nlown out the water.
Are you hoing to address your mistake?
Or are you going to continue to deflect and focus on abortion which by the way is a leagal right of all females in the UK.

Fairenuff · 25/10/2018 09:31

I wonder if children raised in households that insist on gender stereotypes are not actually aware that loads of people are not like that. If they think that's the norm and that the whole world wants boys to play football and girls to dance in a tutu, then maybe they think there really is something wrong with them.

What I get most from that programme is that the child is very young, very isolated and very confused. The parents are selfish and unsupportive and the sibling is egging him on. He needed a lot more therapy and the parents needed to stop shouting and start listening, both to him and to the professionals working with them.

It's just so sad that he is being dragged through this with no time to catch his breath or experience the wider world. Doors closing all around him and only one direction to rush into with no looking back. All because he likes 'girls' clothes and makeup.

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 09:31

I was saying her use of abortion as an argument was weak

Mrskeats · 25/10/2018 09:31

Now attacking people’s names. Mature.

MrsKCastle · 25/10/2018 09:32

Feminist4 I asked earlier about your feelings around the portrayal of the parents in Butterfly.

I'm surprised that so many trans allies are supportive of the show, when the parents were initially shown as so intolerant and unsupportive. They made Max feel that wanting to dance, wear skirts and pretty clothes etc was shameful.

As a parent of a trans child, were you happy with the portrayal of the parents?

CosmicCanary · 25/10/2018 09:36

I was saying her use of abortion as an argument was weak

It was not used as an argument. It was used to show you that others also require multiple Drs to sign/agree to a medical procedure. So saying transpeople are discriminated against because they require it is actually false.

You actually cannot list real legal rights transpeople dont have so are attempting to avoid the subject.

RiverTam · 25/10/2018 09:36

there was a girl a DD's nursery who's mum told me that when she was very little she refused to wear dresses and would only wear leggings and trousers, so by the time I became aware of this girl (when she was about 3) she was turning up to nursery every day in what looked like a pink party dress, lots of frills and sparkle. What was even more baffling is that this mother never wore dresses or skirts herself! I don't think there was anything more going on but it just shows that some people are extremely wedded to what they think a girl (or boy) should wear, or be into.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 25/10/2018 09:36

I wondered why they didn't choose to show a family where the child continued to insist they were the other sex despite loving acceptance of their personality. Wouldn't that have been more convincing and got more sympathy?

I am intrigued by this as well. But I believe (happy to be corrected) that in children there are generally other things going on autism / depression / trauma etc. Maybe there just aren't that many happy children who transition?

StormCloudsDoClear · 25/10/2018 09:43

Feminist 4 I'm really struggling to grasp your logic. You say body dysphoria is a illness and needs to be treated, but gender dysphoria is not. Surely any "dysphoria" is a illness and in need of treatment. You can't cherry pick what mental health conditions are illnesses.

I really don't understand your stance on abortion and why you are trying to use it to state 2 Dr's need to sign off on gender reassignment should be withdrawn. I have had an abortion and was glad to have discussed it with 2 medical professionals, it solidified a very nervous 19 year olds thought process that ending the life of their unborn child was correct. I see no reason why anyone wouldn't want as many opinions as possible before making a life long decision!

Mrskeats · 25/10/2018 09:46

I think there are often other things going on itsall
My step daughter is on the spectrum.

StormCloudsDoClear · 25/10/2018 09:47

Sorry autocorrect doesn't like the word "dysmorphia". Apologies for the typo.