What is ‘cis privilege’?

[MissSusanSays]

I’ve seen quite a few of the posters wo come on to make the pro-self id argument rage about ‘cis privilege’

Could one of them actually explain what it is? Because I struggle to see how women, who are oppressed by their sex and forced into gender norms, abused, paid less, over looked for promotions, given shoddy maternity care, suffer post natal depression in silence, suffer miscarriages, fight through the shame and difficulty on infertility, endometriosis, breast cancer, rape, sexual assault, menopause, hysterectomy, groping, belittling etc are privileged.

If someone who believes in ‘cis privilege’ can point out to me what privileged women have then I’d really, really like to know.

Or is it just another way to shame women into not talking about the tragic and terrifying things that happen to them because of the way their bodies function?

Datun I know many trans woman have had children (as men) before their transition but I am sure you are aware that taking female hormones makes one infertile. Pretty quickly I believe.

And?

Male privilege constitutes being born in the first place. Being considered the default, not lesser than. Owning most of the world's money, property and political influence.

It's not flipped over to women suddenly because some strange man is fantasising about having a womb.

Stop it.

Actually, I think most women are open to discussing with transwomen what their issues and experiences are. I know I am. But what has pushed me past just being an ally is that there is no reciprocation. You can’t expect people to listen and help with your issues if you keep telling them to shut up about their own problems.

The best example: infertile women do not go through the same hardships as transwomen. It is entirely different. I wouldn’t mind discussing this with transwomen and hearing about what they go through. But I absolutely will not accept the stance that I should feel privileged to be able to go through the agony of losing my baby and the the further pain of not being able to conceive again. Being betrayed by your body with no explanation from science and the constant feeling of failing as a woman and the frustration of everyone watching to see if you’re pregnant and the disappointment in the eyes of your own mother as time passes and nothing has happened but she doesn’t want to upset you by mentioning anything is pretty much a daily torture.

It’s not better or worse than being born a man who can never experience pregnancy. It’s different. A totally different scenario so stop telling infertile women that they are like someone born as a man. Because it is already easy enough to feel like you have failed as a woman.

I know full well what it is like to feel like there’s a piece of yourself missing. But I don’t demand that mothers stop talking about their children or that society hides all mentions of pregnancy to make me feel more included.

Not having people not wanting to date you/marry you because you have the wrong sexual organs?

No human has pretty wings. The toddler is upset, not because the fairies have privilege over them, but because they are not engaging with reality. The appropriate response would not be for me to cossett their notion that it was 'unjust' for fairies to have wings while they didn't, it would be to dry their tears, and show them that while we don't always get what we want, there are lots of other good things in the world we can have. Because that's true.

I would not be telling that toddler they were right to be upset because of the heartless fairies and their privilege, and that I would join them in a struggle for their rights to have wings, or at least for the fairies to feel really bad that they had wings and humans didn't.

I mean, I get the overarching 'reality is transphobic' narrative is powerful, but dear lord...

And being jealous of the female body is all very well, but it’s not something we can give up. It is not something taken unfairly, or something that we have been allowed but transwomen are denied by society.

As an example, Men have slowly been giving up priveldge by letting women vote, letting women get mortgages, insisting on equal pay. Men in my organisation have been re writing job adverts to make the language less bombastically Male.

What exactly do you want us to do? Hum share our bodies within you?

MissSusanSays

. That is heartbreaking. Genuinely. So please don't take this next bit amiss :

It’s not better or worse than being born a man who can never experience pregnancy

Yes. It is.

Men with gender dysphoria do not fetishise female pregnancy. Autogynephiles do.

If a man is fetishising pregnancy and female biology, something has gone wrong. It's not a normal reaction to a wish list.

If a man is fetishising pregnancy and female biology, something has gone wrong. It's not a normal reaction to a wish list

I think the very definition of privilege is having stuff (material or otherwise) you take for granted but someone else desperately wants.

Were African Americans privileged over Rachel Dolezal? Are disabled people privileged over transabled ones?

And what about incels? Do you think they're entitled to sex and should be allowed to own a wife?

I don't think you understand privilege or structural inequality.

And being jealous of the female body is all very well, but it’s not something we can give up. It is not something taken unfairly, or something that we have been allowed but transwomen are denied by society.

^ this is so it

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but been thinking about this....

I think if it were termed "conformity privilege" I could understand it; gender-non conformity - whether in someone who considers themselves trans, or just a random GNC lesbian woman - would then be included, as would say being a goth or other subculture. I can see that all of these situations are analogous for being viewed negatively for difference.

I would then include anyone who considers themselves trans who also has dysphoria, under lack of MH privilege - along with other MH conditions.

Conversely, I'd include people who are at a disadvantage because of their biology (aka women) under lack of sex privilege. Or not, if they are Male, regardless of how they identify.

Then finally, I'd include people who consider themselves trans who are discriminated against for their perceived sexuality (by the men who feel so threatened by them, for eg) under hetero privilege.

I don't think it's so simple as "cis privilege", for the reasons that have no doubt already been detailed above

Please forgive my ignorance, I've spent the last few minutes reading up and trying to understand what "cis" means, but am none the wiser. Could someone possibly give me a simple definition?

It IS easier to live in this world as a born woman than it is to live trying to pretend to be one or become one.

That does NOT mean it’s easy to be a woman. It’s obviously far easier to be a man (unless you fall into the category above).

Were African Americans privileged over Rachel Dolezal? Are disabled people privileged over transabled ones?

As soon as you take women out of the formula/equation, people go oh my God, no, you're right.

Put women back in and it's all different again. Women? Whatevs.

Not having people not wanting to date you/marry you because you have the wrong sexual organs?

This is bollocks. No one has a right to sex or marital relationships. People who love you won’t care who you are. Anyone demanding people love them or have sex with them is being childish.

As an adult I know that you cannot force people to like you. If I really fancy someone who is gay I know full well that it won’t be requited. I cannot demand they have sex with me. That is monsterous.

‘Cis’ is a term coined that the gender you identify with matches the sex you were born with. Ie. Meghan is a CIs woman because she was born a female and identifies as a woman.

Some people like to consider Cis -women and trans-women all under the general heading ‘women’, while others consider that we don’t need the term, as Woman covers the meaning completely.

But anyone pretending to be something they are not ( mental health aside) will find it difficult. Most conmen love the thrill of that.

It IS easier to live in this world as a born woman than it is to live trying to pretend to be one or become one

How do you know this?

In view of claims that men not being able to have babies, it seems a good time for this ancient but still pertinent gem:

That does NOT mean it’s easy to be a woman. It’s obviously far easier to be a man (unless you fall into the category above).

What it DOES mean is it's meaningless.

At least crap has categories. Stool chart.

www.suttonccg.nhs.uk/vanguard/Resources/PublishingImages/Pages/default/Bristol%20Stool%20Chart%20-%20A3%20poster.pdf

Surely privilege is inherent power from the accident of birth, like being male or white? If we are saying as a society that cis (hate being labelled but will use it here as op has posed the question) women have more power than men transitioning to women, then I don't see that is true. Therefore, I don't think privilege exists in this context.

@Petalflowers thank you for explaining, I understand now. I find it a little strange that there needs to be a word to mean "born a woman and also thinks they're a woman," but I suppose times have changed a lot. When I was a kid, a little boy wearing a dress caused outrage and accusations of terrible parenting!

Not having people not wanting to date you/marry you because you have the wrong sexual organs?

I assume the double negative is an oversight?

Not having a gay man wanting to date you/marry you because you are female?

Not having people wanting to date you/marry you because you have a facial deformity / life limiting illness / disability?

There is always someone who is going to feel disadvantaged because someone else has got something that they want. The answer to that issue is not to assume their identity and scream 'bigot' at anyone that tries to point out that appropriating someone else's life is not going to solve your problems.

Aah, so all the men who don’t fancy me are bigots.
Monogamous relationships aren’t surely out of the picture though, what with you having to give it up to anyone who wants it, at any time. Good thing us wimmin are good at multi tasking, eh?

So Rupert Everett and I never were a thing ,‘cause he was already bigoted against women, when I reached my prime? Bastard!