M&S launches porn star martini in a can

[amandadecabernet]

Keeping it classy, M&S.

Anyone use the M&S live chat successfully? I've waited to live chat and before anyone answered they ended the chat saying it's not available.
www.marksandspencer.com/MSContactUsCmd?storeId=10151&langId=-24&catalogId=10051&categoryId=282501&byEmail=8

Men can be porn stars so I’d say that the name refers to both genders. I personally never assumed that it referred to women.

The thing is, there's a distinction between discussing feminism (which can include the way everyday language, including the naming of things, is used to normalise the oppression of women). Then there's deliberate hyperbole which comes across as possibly a kind of agent-provocateur attempt to wind people up into a frothing mass (for fun? to obtain screenshots? Who the fuck knows? - that last one's the title of a book by the marvelous Germaine Bunbury in case you're not familiar with her oeuvre.)

Anyway, justifiable feminist point or deliberate hyperbole with an agenda... hard to tell, but I advise all our readers, contributors and lurkers to think critically about this issue... (not the porn-star cocktails, the "not all threads on the internet are started for the reasons they claim on the surface to be started for" issue).

QforCucumber in the same way lots of stuff is marketed toward men and women without you needing to show id or have your chromosomes tested before you buy it. Marketing is sex-based, aimed toward those who are likely to buy it.

think that's a bit ugly and demeaning, and makes a joke of expecting/enticing young women to drink too much so they'll be sexually accessible
Or its a bunch of women who all like a similar drink, like the fun of a sharing cocktail and couldnt give a shiny shit about sexual accessibility or indeed whether there are even any men around as they having too good a time.

FermatsTheorem are you suggesting my intentions are disingenuous? While I think the normalisation of porn is troubling (and everyone has their own line in the sand, so perhaps mine isn't the same as yours), the lather here is more along the lines of I DON'T CARE. Or do you mean my goal is to prove that feminists don't care about porn? Do elaborate, I assure you I'm not taking the piss.
Also on a public forum I assume discussion is the main point. Where's the hyperbole?

OlennasWimple are you a subscriber? Do you mind copying the text here?

I wouldn’t buy one either OP so I get where you are coming from. Also agree given today’s report on the effect Porn is having on society that’s its ‘normalising’ it. I don’t think I’d go as far as boycotting m and s over it though as it’s sadly a well established drink (admittedly they could have changed the name to something less likely to cause offence - they would probably sell more that way too)

" NO PROBLEM with it, love the cocktail, going to name my baby Pornstar"

No one on mumsnet (or indeed anywhere in the fucking world) has ever proposed calling their baby pornstar. That's why your posts are hyperbole.

As for whether you're in good faith, I don't know. Perhaps you genuinely believe this. Perhaps you are on the windup. Perhaps you are terminally stupid. Perhaps you are a labrador. This is the internet - you could be any one of those things. But I do find it impossible to take you seriously.

And I see a lot of reference to a hill that one is or is not prepared to die on, which is fine (hyperbolic, but whatever) but just to be clear I'm not asking anyone to die on any hills. I'm not trying to foment feminist revolution ok that would be great but that's not what this post in particular is about but not everything is revolution-level outrage, there is a thin end of the wedge.
So porn star martini is fine, but future porn star tshirts aren't. Top shelf porn in newsagents is fine but page 3 isn't (or the reverse if you prefer) or whatever, it's all the same ball of wax. You think you say one is okay so they'll come to ask you before they up the ante?
I understand my writing style can be a bit formal and po-faced (get me a porn star martini stat obvs) but I don't see how what I've written in hyperbolic. It's standard radfem stuff as far as I'm concerned.

Seriously? Get a life!

No issue to me.
Show me the way!! 

FermatsTheorem apologies, I thought it was clear that that bit (about the baby) was a joke. I'll sound a klaxon next time. But lots of folk saying how much they like the cocktail and have no problem with it (the earlier capitalisation was mine).

Again, it's pretty standard rape culture stuff. I'm taken aback that it seems so out there to you.

Not saying anyone should boycott anything. There are feminists who are disturbed by this. I am one of them. There are others here. If you're not one, thanks for letting me know I guess - ?

" NO PROBLEM with it, love the cocktail, going to name my baby Pornstar"

Don't be daft. Also - hard no to every use of 'amirite' ever. Just nope.

Ooh crosspost! But still solid on the 'amirite' thing

You can tell I am getting older and out of touch, porn was a thing that was considered to harm Women and Girls, the promotion and pushing of pornified stereotypes on our youth has led to a major rise in sexual harassment of our girls to a point where boys struggle to know what the bounderies are, but it is ok to support a family store's promotion of sexist and demeaning named cocktail! It looks like I was not alone "outdated thinking" as M&S has killed the link! My position is that all pornification is harmful, no matter how it is advertised, it helps to 'normalise' it :(

I'm with you OP, in that I am rolling my eyes at M&S for stocking this.

Of course we know M&S buyers didn't just scroll down a list of cocktails and randomly tick the one with Porn in its title. This was a deliberate choice to appear edgy, 'en trend', young, whatever. It's just one more push that helps make the sex-industry part of mainstream culture.

I'm not going to exhaust any energy over it, but like I say, it has me rolling my eyes.

Pornstar martini has been around for years. I'm surprised you didn't realise that. You're choosing to be deeply disturbed over a complete non issue.

amandadecabernet I’m not sure you get how Internet forums work. You don’t get to make your point and then throw your toys out of the pram when people have an opinion which isn’t the same as yours. You’re perfectly entitled to your opinion, but so is everyone else. They are also equally as permitted to voice that opinion. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean you can stop people engaging.

For what it’s worth I think a lot of cocktail names are cringey, but it doesn’t stop me enjoying them. I’m not much bothered about what my drink is called so long as it tastes nice. There’s no requirement to behave like a pornstar, have sex in the beach or a slow comfortable screw etc etc. They’re names. This is before you even consider the fact that these items (whether in M&S or not) are marketed at over 18s who, should they decide to do any of the above, would be perfectly within their rights to do so. But again, they’re drinks, they are not going to force anyone into any of these things.

I’ll finish with your most hated phrase (apparently). They don’t bother me, bit cringe if you start asking your mam for one, but then I’m probably a bit of a prude. I think there are far more important issues in the world of feminism to sink your teeth into.

Winniefred the further the porn brand is carried across the culture, the further it's used away from actual porn, the more it's normalised for all consumers, as though it is no longer anything to do with sex. Trying to read that link to the Telegraph article but I'm not going to subscribe, not yet anyway.
ifonlyus yes, that was my point. Just to be clear despite my hyperbole and apparently being some kind of agent provocateur, I haven't suggested anywhere that anyone should boycott or exhaust themselves or die on a hill. I'm discussing this because it matters to me as a woman and a feminist, and I'm not the only one.
All I did was post the link and discuss my own thoughts. Again, I say feel free to go on with your lives if this is of absolutely no interest to you.

As pornstars can be both men and women, and the drinks has been around for years and is sold only to over 18's, its a non issue.

NoParticularPattern I don't understand how I've thrown my toys out of the pram. Here I am engaging. I'm just saying that if you genuinely don't care about it consider it understood, you don't have to keep telling me, I'm not taking a survey. I care about it and would like to discuss it, but don't feel like you have to if it means nothing to you. Not sure what you're telling me my most hated phrase is, I didn't say I hated anything.

Why are you targeting M&S? They didn’t come up with the name of the cocktail. Why aren’t you also targeting every bar and restaurant that has it on their menu or every off-licence that sells it as a cocktail mix?

If you're saying it's a non-issue, I don't agree. And there are others who don't agree. Normalisation of porn is damaging.

I'm not 'targeting' them, I've posted a link to an article that is being used to market this product.

I just want one