Delete My Gender Please

[Barracker]

Dear @MNHQ. I do not have any gender, because as I'm sure you know, I don't believe in gender as a characteristic that people 'have', only as a stereotypical role people of a sex are expected to perform.

Therefore, as you currently hold some 'gender' data on me that states:
Barracker, Gender = Female
AND as that data is both false and I do not consent for you to hold it, please delete that specific piece of data from my personal information at your earliest convenience.

Thank you.

(If you would care to capture data on my biological sex, I would be delighted to offer you that data. Do let me know as soon as you create a field to capture my sex data. This should also assist you if you intend to monitor or analyse data on the Equality Act 2010 regarding the protected characteristic sex.)

Warmest regards

Barracker x

#DeleteMyGender

Some of the legal reasoning on this thread is completely wrong (solicitor specialising in sex discrimination). Suffice to say this area is a legal mess and the legislation (and surrounding guidance and case law) is not consistent or precise in its use of terminology, partly because that was not in the minds of those drafting the law at the time.

I am advising clients to remove the word gender from their forms and replace with the word sex. This is because certain groups have adopted the terminology sex and gender to mean two different things even though the majority of the population wouldn't consider the words to be anything but interchangeable. The whole "gender is a social construct" line is misconceived IMO.

Notwithstanding that -

I am a woman.

I am not a "cis" woman. There is already a way of distinguishing. The two terms are "woman" and "transwoman".

I am certainly not a "womxn" even if the use of this ridiculous term is justified by saying that biological women are a subset of the new category of "womxn".

My biological sex is female.

Since we seem to be immersing ourselves in the world of stereotyping, whether I'm a feminine girly woman with pink ribbons in my hair or a masculine butch woman with a skin head and wearing dungarees and doc martins is irrelevant.

Whether I "feel like" I'm trapped in the wrong body is irrelevant.

I would prefer that the information that I am female is recorded as my "sex"

Although do yourselves a favour MNHQ. Just remove the question. Why do you even need to know? I'm sure your advertisers know that your audience is primarily female without you presenting them with the stats.

Under gdpr they should only be gathering personal data that is necessary to provide the service. Don’t see why they need data on gender, unicorns or any other invented concept.
Or sex, for that matter

I have deleted my gender, and my daughter's. Happy to add our sexes when the option becomes available. When I signed up I perceived 'gender' as a naice alternative to sex but that can no longer be argued.

Please MN change "gender" to "sex". If you can't do that then please delete my gender.

Same here thanks

The whole "gender is a social construct" line is misconceived IMO.

I'm interested in why you believe this to be the case?

Is MNHQ really assigning genders to us?

Go to 'my mumsnet' (top right)
Click on 'settings'
Go to the 'about you' tab
It asks your gender, not your sex.

Has this changed? I’m sure when I signed up the question was just are you male or female (or possibly other), I seem to remember it neatly sidestepped gender completely.

@MNHQ have you changed this?

I would like my gender deleted and the question to explicitly ask for biological sex.

Oh yes please user

I would be very interested in why it's misconceived

Im assuming because it hasnt been used as a social construct but as an alternative word to sex but thats probably wrong

Ive just checekd and after i changed my details following the last data link..thanks emma

I didnt put gender in this time...i may well have put it on originally

Hi all and thanks for your comments. We're going to simplify this to the following, which we hope will work for everyone:

Are you: male/female/unspecified

This should show up in your My Mumsnet page, as well as the 'join Mumsnet' process, later this week.

Thanks everyone,

MNHQ

Oh, I've just noticed I'm all woke.

I have no gender.

My child, though, does.

I think you're missing the point, though, MNHQ. It's sex. Not how many gender options you offer.

yes MNHQ

wouldn't it be useful to know some true facts?

like what sex your users are?

are they of the sex that generally makes most of the purchasing decisions for families or not

that sort of thing

Are you: male/female/unspecified

No I'd prefer 'woman/man/need to check contents of underwear'

I don't tick male/female now as gender is now a nonsense term that tells you naff all of actual use.

is it that saying sex sounds rude?

i think that's half the bloody problem with the whole thing frankly

try getting away with talking about the sex pay gap on the radio

I would blush when I was about 6 but I'm all growed up now.

sex sex sex sex sex SEXXX

Hi all and thanks for your comments. We're going to simplify this to the following, which we hope will work for everyone:

Are you: male/female/unspecified

This should show up in your My Mumsnet page, as well as the 'join Mumsnet' process, later this week.

Thanks everyone,

MNHQ

No, Kate, that categorically won't do. It isn't how data management works.

Rendering the NAME OF THE FIELD invisible to the subjects is merely a deception.
What is that field representing? Gender or sex? Which one? This is your database, and only you know the title of the field and how it is used.

If you analyse that data, if you produce a report that states x% of our user base are female - are you producing gender data or sex data?
If an advertiser asks for segmentation of your database by gender, will you answer, sorry, we don't hold gender data, or will you take 'female' to be gender in that instance?

Suggesting that we can all be logged as female with no reassurances that this is female sex vs female gender is ludicrous. Don't worry our pretty little heads about what the data means or how it is held and used.

It's like asking me to sign a blank cheque and assuring me that you'll fill it out for the right amount and make it out to the right person afterwards.

Which is it, this field with 'female/male/unspecified'? Is it Sex, or Gender? They are not interchangeable, they each require separate fields. This is EXACTLY what my objection has been all along, and I know I'm not alone, and it's why the law is in such a mess right now. Women have provided you with their SEX data in good faith, and it is being used surreptitiously for the purposes of gender, and hiding the name of the field doesn't change anything.

We're asking for transparency with our data, and GDPR insists we are entitled to that.

I suspect that you may still use this data as if it were gender, and the MN user base will continue to be misled.

If you cannot assure me that any and all data you have ever held on my so-called gender is deleted, I must reiterate, please delete my gender.

If you create a field that unambiguously holds sex information I will be happy to complete it.

I'm sorry, but this does not fly, not at all.

You may find this data collection guide from www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/collecting_info_gender_id.pdf useful.

It points out that We now need at least TWO questions to ascertain and monitor sex AND Gender and to differentiate between the two:

These questions would therefore replace the current questions, for example “Are you male/female?”.

Questions 1 and 2
The context in which the questions are asked will heavily influence reporting and disclosure of gender history in those who have transitioned. This is because while most people who have transitioned will think about their sex at birth when answering, some people with a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) may answer this question by indicating their acquired sex.
Therefore, an introductory text should be provided before this question in order to encourage participation and to gain respondents’ trust to answer the questions. The text should explain why the data are being collected; how the data will be protected under the Data Protection Act; and how respect for the respondents’ answers will be achieved by the organisation; for example, through ensuring confidentiality and anonymity throughout. The questions should be asked of those aged 16 and above. Question 1 asks for sex at birth, while question 2 asks gender identity:

Question 1
At birth, were you described as….
Please tick one option
Male
Female
Intersex
I prefer not to say

Question 2
Which of the following describes how you think of yourself?
Please tick one option
Male
Female
In another way:

Or, you could just put two fields for us, label one sex, and one gender, and let us volunteer our data as we see fit.

Are you: male/female/unspecified

I will not be providing this information until it is made clear that it is sex being recorded.

YES. @Barracker 100% agree.

Take note MNHQ.

Yes barracker

"Cis isn't an identity it's objectively characterisation."

No, that would be gender...

Gender is bullshit impossed on us from birth to keep us (both male and females) in our places/because society is fucked up. Misgendering is a thing. So lets scrap gender altogether? Instead of continuing to conflate it with biological sex, which is a protected characteristic (and for good reason). Funny how that doesn't appeal to the conservative, narrow minded, misogynistic TRA brigade though...

The word cis isn't necessary, woman, women, female, man, men or male are enough? And mean the same thing...? I can't see why Dr's like midwives, urologists etc would ever need the term, so why would the rest of us? Medically you're male, female or you're one or other and have had genital reconstructive surgery. Adding natal is silly too, as you can't change what sex you're born as, any more than I got to choose my height and build (which I choose to accept instead of mutilate myself to try to look more like someone else than me).

I previously had decided that my gender was fern, but have changed my mind - if I must have a gender then it is "attack kitten".

My sex remains female, as sex cannot be changed.

There's supposed to be what, 40 different genders now? That's more believable than that the two, rigid, stereotypical often misogynistic genders that we had, were just silly misconceptions, built up on over time, based on personality stereotypes about biological sex, and making sweeping generalisations?

No, it couldn't be that some of us have penises, some have vaginas (two sex's, with different general characteristics, like most mammals), and that as humans and like most mammals, we all have distinct/seperate personalities and proclivities, that are inate and personal to us but obviously influenced by family, society etc. But that's considered daft..?

If my female dog starts to prefer her blue ball, to her pink ball (or her hard rubber chew toy to to her soft fluffy teddy), do you think she could actually be a male dog that was born in the wrong body..?

Hi all - just to say that all the data entered on your "About You" page is optional -- none of it is required on registration. If you click "edit" you can change or delete information you've previously supplied. We don't edit the data that you supply, but if you need help with the page, do drop a line to [email protected].