Self-ID in Norway: woman sued for harassment for challenging intact male in changing room

[arranfan]

It's a case review and it's a little bit more complicated than that as it played out over a period of time but...

July 2016. Norway introduces a new law which means anyone can change their "legal sex" on paper, simply by filling in a form....July 2016, at a fitness centre in a Norway. A woman is having a shower when a man walks in to use the women's showers. The woman is uncomfortable and after getting dressed she asks the man why he was using the women's shower. He replies that he's legally a woman... The woman & man again "meet" in the women's changing area at the gym. As she's already asked management & been told that anyone with male genitalia should use the men's changing area, she asks the man if he's been given permission to use the women's showers

The man shouts at her "What the fuck is your problem! This is non of your fucking business!" After this they both speak to the management and later on the centre replies in writing saying they now allow men who are legally women in the women's changing area.

The man felt the woman had harassed him by questioning why he was in the women's changing area and by referring to him as a biological man in a meeting with the centre management. He sues her for harassment, based on his "sex identity and sex expression.

The woman was just cleared of the harassment accusations. She should never have had to go through what she did, for questioning why a man was showering next to her in the women's changing rooms.

twitter.com/kajsa_skog/status/1050460469297856512

FPFW are aware - this might be a useful example for anyone filling out consultations.

Ah but OP this will never happen.

Pro-self-ID posters have insisted that nothing will ever change and that men will continue to be called out without any issue.

So I don't know why you wrote this post.

So I don't know why you wrote this post.

It's why I'm on the list for the pilot re-education programme in the gulag.

Good grief. I am sorry the woman went through what she did but I'm glad that she was cleared of charges of harassment.

The Norwegians have their heads up their arses about sex and gender, though.

That first comment about you 3rd wave feminists wanted this so suck it up. Infuriating.

Yep, we have all this to look forward to.

I am sorry the woman went through what she did but I'm glad that she was cleared of charges of harassment.

The precipitating incident would have been bad enough but to have had the experience repeated and for the centre to back down in such a pusillanimous manner. And then the stress of being sued for harassment and waiting for the outcome?

It will never happen

Oh wait . . . . . . . .

But, but...Brian Paddick and lots of others have told us we just have to challenge men we think shouldn't be in women's spaces.

And we've told them why we won't be able to and it's an open door for any man who wants to be in there to enter and know he cannot be challenged.

Fuck off, Brian.

PLEASE can someone who knows how to do these things make a 'fuck off Brian' meme?

It's why I'm on the list for the pilot re-education programme in the gulag.

At this point, it sounds like these re-education gulags will be full of women, transsexuals, and men who respect women.
Might be the one place where we actually get to maintain some proper female-only spaces, then?

That’s okay. If I can’t challenge for fear of being sued (as well as fear of being attacked) I can stop wondering how I should teach my 8yo daughter to do the same.

Instead I’ll just have to teach her that changing rooms aren’t for girls.

At this point, it sounds like these re-education gulags will be full of women, transsexuals, and men who respect women.
Might be the one place where we actually get to maintain some proper female-only spaces, then?

Ooooh...it's begininng to sound attractive.

If anyone is on Twitter, perhaps they might tweet that thread to Brian and ask if he wishes to revise his assessment that it would never happen?

If anyone is on Twitter, perhaps they might tweet that thread to Brian and ask if he wishes to revise his assessment that it would never happen?

Yes - I can't but can someone else? (I was threatened off Twitter and will never return)

I was just thinking that those who know how to use Twitter (i.e. not me....although I can master clicking on links and reading...) woudl be good to tweet this specific example to that liberal champion Brian and ask him how he responds to this clear evidence??

Debbie Hayton has also said all we have to do is ask a man to leave. On MN, in fact.

Izzat so? Just like that?

It's just vindictive crap isn't it? You don't do as I tell you so I'm going to punish you.

Same as that '3rd Wave Feminists got what's coming to them' prick. You asked for things you had no right to ask for and you got what was coming to you. Another vindictive bastard.

And at least get the waves right. Tosser.

Men are good at telling us how to deal with threatening men, aren't they?

Debbie Hayton has also said all we have to do is ask a man to leave. On MN, in fact.

Indeed. If you were a woman working for Credit Suisse, would you fancy your chances if you challenged Bunce? I have a feeling that I know who HR would support in that case...

And what if the case had happened to be heard by a judge who loved the idea of teaching uppity women a lesson?

But sure, never happens and if it does it'll be fine anyway.

The woman was just cleared of the harassment accusations. She should never have had to go through what she did, for questioning why a man was showering next to her in the women's changing rooms.

I do not understand. Why would it be ok for the woman to question this presumably bearded and bepenised other woman? Or have the Norwegians concluded that asking is ok, as long as the asking woman shuts up upon the 'I am a woman' explanation?

Or have the Norwegians concluded that asking is ok, as long as the asking woman shuts up upon the 'I am a woman' explanation?

Yes. Because men's feelings are more important than women's feelings.

Fuck off, Brian.

Interesting in relation to another thread where women have been talking about how to deal with the situation of transwomen using changing rooms, which is already happening although the law hasn't changed yet.

Many were saying they would talk to staff and get them or managers to deal with the situation, which sounds like the safest course of action. But of course those individuals and that business will then have to take the consequences, and there seems to be plenty of money about for these court cases.

It really looks like women will start avoiding confrontation by staying at home. I wonder, if that happens and it starts to affect gyms and clothes shops in their profits, will that cause a push back where concern for our human rights has failed.

But I thought self id worked really well in other countries and the UK would just be 'catching up' by reforming the GRA?