Womxn controversy on Newsnight

[WTFisawomxn]

Watching BBC 2 right now.
Looks like it will come up later in the programme.

I thought Sophie had given up politics having failed to get selected as a candidate (failed business financials) but there is a book out next month (about Sophie). So you have to keep your profile up.

I agree with those who think this is an own goal. It might have removed attention from Adult Human Female, but for all those who looked at that campaign with bemusement that anyone might think the word woman was under threat have now had a perfect demonstration.

I haven’t watched the clip, but every day on Twitter there are new people going “wtf is this nonsense?” At one time it was always the same names. Now there are loads appearing every time a new issue appears.

Next it will be wxmxn, then wxmxx, then xxmxx, then xxxxx ... then a puff of smoke.

Is Cook transaged too?

She has only been a woman since 2015, so could be considered to be just starting out.

Trouble is, as I understand it, she was not able to leave her financial history behind, so the constituency party dropped her. I assume that if new provisions on deadnaming/doxxing are adopted, that type of problem can also be finessed.

Thanks for your that video, just listened to the audio whilst driving to work and it at least got me to chuckle a bit :-) “wim-ix-in” lol, who knew!

He gets it through - to paraphrase, he was saying before long we’ll have men claiming transgender status for the specialness - er, yeah, that’s our point, and before long is here!

Was last night's Newsnight linked to #choosereality? I haven't had a chance to go on Twitter yet today.

If you're pissed off with the BBC for this farce, don't just complain here, tell them!

BBC complaints here: www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/

You can phone, email or write.

It doesn’t really look good to attack sophie about this. If that happens t is easier to dismiss legitimate viewpoints as bigotry.

There is a good argument to make about biological women having a separate identity to transgender women and being constantly discriminated against since birth and needing to keep their own platforms for themselves. It’s legitimate to say biological women should not have their voice drowned out or replaced by the voices of transgender women who have a different focus and life experience. Transgender people need a voice and platform too but that should not be at the expense of the biological female voice.

Surely it is the BBC we should be cross with. Sophie is a person with a strong belief system and she was given a national television platform on which to air her views, of course she took it, who wouldn’t? But the BBC are the ones at fault, the producers of Newsnight who thought two white born-males were the right people to discuss what women like to be called. It’s those producersf who made the decision to take the voice away from biological females and replace it with two biological males.

I’m sorry my terminology is all wrong. I am new to thinking about this area.

Criticism is not an attack, and if a person wants to get into politics they have better be responsible for their own behaviour and the consequences of their policies.

If you do want to complain to the BBC, you may like to know that the programme was broadcast on BBC2 on 10th October at 10:30pm.

AutoFillUsername oh do give over. Have you watched the clip?

Sophie is supporting the erasing of women and demonstrated racist attitudes. It's absolutely right that Sophie get robust criticism for this, along with the BBC.

Transwomen are not above criticism, why should they be? That's ridiculous.

Pandering and playing nicey nicey is what's got us into this mess in the first place.

Oh! Just switched in the radio and Jo Brand is on Women’s Hour. She was saying “Woman” to her means “someone of the female gender” (wish she’d said sex, but we’re half way there)

Complaint registered with the BBC.

It doesn’t really look good to attack sophie about this. If that happens t is easier to dismiss legitimate viewpoints as bigotry.

What absolute bunkum.

Sophie has nothing to do with me and went on TV with the temerity to claim the right to define me. Not only that, Sophie managed to be racist while doing it.

So Sophie can fuck the fuck off to the far side of fuck and if bonkers extremists on the internet want to call me a bigot for saying that, they can go right ahead.

Sophie is a person with a strong belief system

Yes, a racist misogynist one.

women of colour and transwomen

Wtf? Since when have they aligned with women of colour? Or even asked us what we thought?

Yet another set of entitled bandwagonists trying to 'other' us as a sub-set of women, to suit their own aims.

They can Piss Off.

Yes I have watched it, as I stated last night I watched it live. I just think it’s easy to dismiss arguments if they are mixed in with personal attacks. If the trans movement can dismiss legitimate points by pointing to personal attacks and bigotry then they don’t have to think of proper answers. And it is harder for politicians to get on board with the feminist agenda if it’s associated with personal attacks, bullying or anything that even faintly suggests bigotry.

That’s my feeling based on a career of working with very successful lobbying campaigns and therefore knowing how to most effectively further a political agenda. If you want to make progress you have to make it hard for your opponents to criticise you and you have to make it easy for politicians to get on board.

That’s my feeling based on a career of working with very successful lobbying campaigns and therefore knowing how to most effectively further a political agenda. If you want to make progress you have to make it hard for your opponents to criticise you and you have to make it easy for politicians to get on board.

There is wisdom in that, politics does work that way.

Surely it is the BBC we should be cross with. Sophie is a person with a strong belief system and she was given a national television platform on which to air her views, of course she took it, who wouldn’t?

Sophie also applied and took up a place on the JO Cox program to support women into politics and a place on Labour's All Woman Shortlist.

Sophie didn't do well and then, I understand, flounced off announcing that was the end of her involvement in politics.

Many many people would not take up an invitation to speak on behalf of a group they were not part of or even on a subject they were not qualified to speak on.

Sophie Cook won't have just randomly being called up by Newsnight.

It would be interesting to know which (if any) of the trans-rights media groups Sophie Cook is associated with or even perhaps which BBC employee/s proposed her being picked to debate the issue.

It's piss easy for politicians to get on board. All they have to do is uphold the current law.

There are overwhelming arguments in favour of not just ditching self ID, but repealing the entire GRA, and straightening up the equality act as well.

Arguments that start and end with common sense and fairness. Plus, current law.

It doesn't work.

The complete incongruity of having a late transitioning male speaking on behalf of women, resulting in indignant criticism and piss taking is an entirely natural reaction.

And one that every single person watching that would have had, irrespective of whether or not they are gender critical feminists.

Coherent, logical argument has not swayed many politicians. Because they are shit scared of the trans-lobby.

Exposing the trans lobby as the ludicrous, incongruent, illogical, domineering force it is, as evidenced by last night, is a perfectly rational course of action.

I'm deeply suspicious of people pushing the "now now, we must be moderate and reasonable" line when we've had years of that and got nowhere, and it was when things like Man Friday and Posie's various efforts got going that we actually started gaining some tractions.

Almost as if some people might have noticed that those groups/people are having an impact and hoped to discourage more of the same.

Can someone explain the definitions to me please. I’ve read the thread and can’t seem to find it.

Women - adult human females. I get this.
Womyn- ??
Womxn - ??

I agree with Autofill.

Sophie is a transwoman. Very few people would instinctively accept her as a woman. Her, and other people's socialisation would prevent this. Oddly women are likely to be kinder. She is likely to receive regular and routine abuse and discrimination from ordinary men. Look at the way she trumpets the acceptance she received from her employer, AFC Bournemouth. She clearly did not expect this.

However she is not a woman. I don't know if she has a GRC. If she does, the law allows her access to female spaces. If she does not, the current law does not. There is no reason why her views on women or feminism should be seen as particularly special. She is just an ordinary trans-woman in the street with the views and prejudices that come with her background and journey. Lord knows why the BBC think she has anything particularly interesting to say, or why she was selected for the Jo Cox leadership programme. But that is a question for the BBC and the Labour Party.

With a slightly wider issue, that, in part because of problems transwomen faces, simply for being trans-women, the Sophie Cooks, Lily Maddigans and Amy Challenors seem to be financially reliant on media fees and diversity consultancies.

Womyn - term some feminists used during the Second Wave in the 60s/70s as an attempt to remove the word "man" from "woman" - symbolism, innit?

Womxn - attempt to argue that everyone and their uncle (literally!) can be a woman if they say so by being racist as fuck and suggesting that women of color are not already included in the word "women".