Aggressive Feminism Boards

[PerverseConverse]

I've been on this board for a while now and long enough to understand the issues and why women are so vocal about them and angry that our rights are threatened.
I'm frustrated reading on other threads, or on social media that this board is aggressive, shoots down discussion, and calls people names if their views don't match the majority. I can't say that I've seen that myself. All I see is intelligent discussion and persuasive arguments. Any goadiness is appropriately dealt with from what I've read as are any views that don't match reality. Maybe that's what upsets people: that their delusions are challenged with indisputable reality.
I'm still new to feminism and learning daily but I see women fighting for other women and prepared to get flak for that. I see some women who have been well and truly brainwashed by the trans movement and by men and the patriarchy in general. And that's the other criticism: that we are too focused on the trans issue. That makes me angry. The trans issue is the major one affecting women and girls at the moment and it's right that we are focused on it.
These complaints are coming from women who are calling themselves feminists and it baffles me completely that feminists can't understand the biggest threat to women and girls.
Now, I'm aware these so called feminists may well be trolls but I don't think they all are. How can some feminists be so opposed to other feminists passionately protecting their rights? Rights that are for ALL women.

HamiltonCork

My definition of woman is adult human female.

Mine too as I stated, please tell me what the definition of a female is?

I get what you are saying Lass but I don't see being asked if you are a man as a bad thing. It's just a question that can be easily be answered.

Eresh personally I had a look at FWR this morning because the other threads have been deleted/stopped the ability to post. And I do think the discussion is valid and needs to be bad so I looked to see if anything had been started. No shame in that.

If they said 'I have a problem with them all' then that should have been reported and deleted, as that sounds like they are making judgements on trans people as people.

Was the exact words.

Needs to be HAD

For people who wanted to hide the board and of course did so, it's strange that some found this thread so quickly.

They still come up in active for some reason.

I would love someone to persuade me, with convincing, coherent arguments backed up with solid evidence, that self ID is no threat to women. That men CAN be women. That’s it’s ok to cut bits off children who aren’t gender conforming. All of it. Show me I’m wrong.

Like others here, I'm really, really tired and hugely stressed over this. I see evidence - solid, 'this does and is happening evidence - every day which proves self-id is a massive threat to girls and women.

I've been hounded and threatened off Twitter by TRAS. I've been abused and hounded out of a group on Facebook by libfems for expressing perfectly reasonable concerns about self-id. I've been cut off - completely - by male gay members of my family who believe "Transwomen are women" and who told me when they were willing to discuss it with me that I had "nothing to worry about" with regard to predatory men invading women's spaces, etc.

So, forgive me if FWR is the place where I am robust in my discussions (I don't believe I've ever been abusive or threatening to anyone, though I was one of the recipients of the PM telling me I was a "Nazi"). I will try to hold anyone to account if they promote unevidenced views - people who won't accept that allowing men who identify as women into women's sports will destroy sport for girls and women, for example.

FWR isn't 'let's all try to get along' - it's one of the only places in the fucking world at the moment where women can actually describe ad discuss their concerns without men shutting them down.

@HamiltonCork

But what is an adult human female?

en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/female

Can anyone link to threads where people are saying fwr are all scary and aggressive?

I lurked on here for ages before starting to comment. Slowlyshrinking is right that the gc view has become dominant here because of the careful explanations given over time. Helped I think by the new talk guidelines. And also because this is the only place to speak abt this. Most posts are sensible and considered. But I share some of the OPs thoughts and those who support her view. There is a hive mind here and it does shoo people away. I have seen it happen. I wish those coming to speak as a lib fem who believe twaw, and that tw are v disadvantaged women compared to others, would really put their case here. It looks like there is disagreement on what is fact, what is opinion and what is belief. It's quite fundamental disagreement with completely different versions of reality being called to. But I really think it should be possible to discuss and see the other point of view. I would put myself down as pragmatic gc with some sympathies for the lib fem position. I don't know if this is the most important issue facing women. It is important though.

Teddy, I’ll give you a clue: all of us came out of one. You will never find someone who was borne of a man.

This, obviously, does not mean that women who do not bear children are not women. They are women who, for whatever reasons, do not bear children.

Hamilton - great, just as I said.

So do you think woman who don’t produce eggs are not woman?

Or does the phrase ‘or denoting’ mean anything to you? If so, what would you say this includes?

Thanks in advance.

I get what you are saying Lass but I don't see being asked if you are a man as a bad thing. It's just a question that can be easily be answered.

No it can't. I spent hours trying to answer this on a previous thread. I posted about my pregnancies, my births, my miscarriages. Still they insisted I was a man and therefore my views were irrelevant. What more should I have done to "easily answer" that?

This is the only place on the internet where women can come together and discuss this without aggressive vitriolic men and women shouting them down.

I feel safe here.

I've contributed to Facebook threads on this topic and the things that have been said to me have left me shaken and anxious.

So I love it here with women who feel like me that being a woman is a biological reality.

A woman's reproductive system is designed to produce eggs. That fact that some women’s reproductive systems do not produce eggs doesn’t change that.

Women whose reproductive systems are atypical or non-functioning are not the same as people with testes and penises.

I know it must be very intimidating to post an opinion that goes against the grain here
I've posted against the grain here several times, and I'm generally one of those people who is quite timid. Just as an example, I think some posters are too ready to excuse all child abuse by females as being caused by mental illness/PND, and I'm quite happy to say so without feeling attacked.
And there was a few threads on here about the google shooter in the US, quite a few posters stood up on those threads and said that some of the posts were wrong.

Sigh, it's yet another "women, why can't you just be nicer?" thread

Nobody has said that. Nothing to do with being a woman so you have to be nice. Treating people as human regardless of whether they're male or female more like.

Ah - I see you want to play devide and conquer with women who do or don't have children?
Women who don't produce eggs are women. I had ovarian cancer and had my ovaries removed but, yes, I'm still a woman. Every post menopause woman is also female.

@Manderleyagain

Strangely they were deleted. One remains but it was locked by MNHQ.

Not sure how to link. It was in AIBU

So @Elephantinacravat your definition of "woman" excludes the PPs sister who was born without a womb and so therefore won't experience periods, pregnancy, breast feeding or possibly having a smear.

No, because she is still a female. She has a female body, she was born without a womb.

Humans are a bipedal species, people born with no legs are not 'not human'.

This person does not have a womb because something has happened to her
female body during her development which means that is missing. Not because she has a male reproductive system.

I don't know anything about this person and so don't want to make assumptions about her experiences. But it is possible that her female experience involves feelings around being born with a female body but not having a womb, and what that would entail: all sorts of tests, coming to terms with not having children, possible hormonal symptoms which come with not having a womb. They are her female experiences.

None of those experiences are male experiences. No man has ever been born without a womb and had to deal with the consequences of that. She is a woman.

Being born without a womb is a uniquely female experience. As is breastfeeding, childbirth etc.

In the same way that women who have hysterctomies are still women, because having a hysterectomy is a uniquely female experience.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3382043-To-ask-how-to-hide-a-topic

Not sure if this works but is the only one that remains

Earlywalker I am not a scientist but there was a great post here recently by a more knowledgeable person who defined female as the biological class who produce eggs. You are still in that class even if, for whatever reason, your XX female body doesn't produce eggs.

I will see if I can find the post.

Nice certainly hasn’t got me attacked/coming last so don’t tar us with the same brush

But feminism isn't just for YOU it's for US. All of the women. Women are being attacked - in the street, in Shelters, in prisons, in war and in peace. Women are coming last - at work, at home, in sport and in business.

I am honestly very happy that you haven't seen that side of being female. But lots of us have and lots of us know other women that have. So I feel it is important to stand up for those women, especially those who don't feel they can do it for themselves.

I'm sorry you have been called a handmaiden, that cannot have been nice. But there are certainly other things you could have been called that are worse - thankfully I firmly believe that the women of FWR wouldn't do that to you. That's the job of the MRAs that have been abusing MNers since the board began.

I think this quote is relevant for all those ‘ our opinions are dismissed’ people.

*The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have a right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!*

• Professor Brian Cox

But what is an adult human female?

Adult human female = of the sex class which produces ova.

Not of the sex class not one who produces ova.