Aggressive Feminism Boards

[PerverseConverse]

I've been on this board for a while now and long enough to understand the issues and why women are so vocal about them and angry that our rights are threatened.
I'm frustrated reading on other threads, or on social media that this board is aggressive, shoots down discussion, and calls people names if their views don't match the majority. I can't say that I've seen that myself. All I see is intelligent discussion and persuasive arguments. Any goadiness is appropriately dealt with from what I've read as are any views that don't match reality. Maybe that's what upsets people: that their delusions are challenged with indisputable reality.
I'm still new to feminism and learning daily but I see women fighting for other women and prepared to get flak for that. I see some women who have been well and truly brainwashed by the trans movement and by men and the patriarchy in general. And that's the other criticism: that we are too focused on the trans issue. That makes me angry. The trans issue is the major one affecting women and girls at the moment and it's right that we are focused on it.
These complaints are coming from women who are calling themselves feminists and it baffles me completely that feminists can't understand the biggest threat to women and girls.
Now, I'm aware these so called feminists may well be trolls but I don't think they all are. How can some feminists be so opposed to other feminists passionately protecting their rights? Rights that are for ALL women.

Of course transwomen have always existed and can't be made to disappear - nor should they

The question is self-ID, that was sneaked into law without consent
Polls indicate that nearly 90% of people disagree that transwomen should be allowed into single sex spaces
So that fight goes on

I thought you wanted debate, but is what you really want is to stop debate about the most serious issue affecting women's rights for decades ?

Absolutely noone is discouraging you from creating threads about other topics;
I've created some myself - recently about the Nobel physics prize - but never in fact started a trans thread yet

And ascribing it to socialisation? Just another way of saying stereotypes.

You can't magic it away by not thinking about it. Like sex based oppression.

Who knows? I'd like to give it a go

You'd like to give it a go just saying no to transwomen? Can you even hear yourself?

R0wantrees
Womens rights are only discussed now within the context of trans rights though.

There is no discussion solely about women's issues.

What about issues of abortion? What is happening in the US right now looks to have the potential to seriously impact on a woman's ability to obtain an abortion. Where is that being discussed?

You'd like to give it a go just saying no to transwomen? Can you even hear yourself?

Stating my own boundaries around males. I can do that if I wish, I think.

Suggesting that it's wrong for me to do that. Can you hear yourself?

What about issues of abortion? What is happening in the US right now looks to have the potential to seriously impact on a woman's ability to obtain an abortion. Where is that being discussed?

You're perfectly free to start a thread. If you wanted to be constructive.

brownpaperteddy We shouldn't continue stereotypes, but we can't ignore socialisation
We see everywhere on MN that many women have been socialised to accept outrageous behaviour from men, who have also been socialised to act that way

Biology has been key in oppression, but socialisation also plays an important role

We must define and acknowledge problems, before we can start to solve them

What will be achieved by just "no."?

Who knows? I'd like to give it a go
You can't just refuse to acknowledge a whole group though. Well, you could but no one will take you seriously.

The solution will be to find a way that suits everyone. If you refuse to engage the discussion will take place without you, without anyone representing your interests.

Original
You can't make transmen or transwomen disappear (rightly so) so we need to find ways that society works for everyone. What will be achieved by just "no."?

*What will be achieved by just "no."?
Who knows? I'd like to give it a go.

Give what a go? What exactly are you hinting at here? Saying no to there being any transwomen? As that's how you're coming across.

brownpaperteddy We shouldn't continue stereotypes, but we can't ignore socialisation

But by perpetuating those stereotypes you won't ever break them.

Surely as women we should not be perpetuating the myths that women act, talk, dress, look a certain way?

Womens rights are only discussed now within the context of trans rights though.

Women's rights are being discussed in the current context.
gender self-id is acutely relevent at this time in history.

This is the Feminism and Women's Rights Chat board.

Women's issues are being discussed on every thread and board of Mumsnet.

You're perfectly free to start a thread. If you wanted to be constructive.
But I don't want to post on the feminist boards.

This is why I need FWR, to be able to get other’s opinions on these issues. To sound out my thoughts and see where others stand and if that is something that I agree to. So when, in the past, I have put forward ideas and views and been called whatever, it’s so disheartening to think that my opinions don’t matter a bit.

We may be at a similar place in our thoughts, although I am probably further along in that I don't believe it's possible to have a definition of woman that includes males at all. This doesn't mean I don't think trans people aren't valid, it just means I don't think men can become women.

I am sorry you have been made to feel like your views don't matter or are 'wrong'. It is important to be able to discuss this stuff without name calling. Lots of people have formed their ideas through debate on here and sometimes that has involved being knocked down in an argument.

Indeed I remember, a long time ago, having pretty much the opposite view on this issue, I remember debating with people about it, and I remember my arguments growing weaker and theirs growing stronger. And then Caitlyn Jenner got 'woman of the year' and that was it for me. I was never called names, but at the same time the debate was robust and I could see that what I believed didn't stand up to scrutiny.

What is also disheartening is being called a 'transphobic bigot' for not having the belief that transwomen aren't women.

Why do RadFems have to start all these other threads ?
As I said, I've created a few, none of them about self=ID to date

Noone is stopping you from creating them

Maybe I've misundertood, but I think what you really find objectionable on FWR is the number of threads on various aspects on self-ID

You can't police what topics others choose to discuss, but why don't you start all these threads you want to see ?
It would be the ideal way to make FWR more like you want

The solution will be to find a way that suits everyone. If you refuse to engage the discussion will take place without you, without anyone representing your interests.

You're very naive in assuming that there is a way that suits everyone. I'm engaging a lot. On my terms. Stating my boundaries. You obviously can do otherwise but please don't tell me what I should do.

But I don't want to post on the feminist boards

That's your choice then.

Sorry that should say for having the belief that transwomen aren't women.

But I don't want to post on the feminist boards.

Then don't. Maybe stop pointlessly banging on about them then.

If you don't want to post on FWR and don't want to create your own threads, what do you want ?
Just that we stop discussing something you disapprove of, on a board you don't visit ?

You can't police what topics others choose to discuss, but why don't you start all these threads you want to see ? It would be the ideal way to make FWR more like you want

Seriously? Post from a more liberal stand as an OP or say you're inclusive of transwomen.
Just see what happens.

Give what a go? What exactly are you hinting at here? Saying no to there being any transwomen?

Saying 'no' to males in female spaces. That doesn't mean you are saying no to there being any transwomen, it means you are saying 'no' to males in female spaces.

Ereshkigal

Not trying to tell you. More the royal you as in women in general.

You say what you want. Represent your views in anyway you see fit.

Just don't speak for me in those views. I don't agree with you.

brownpaperteddy The real ones perpetuating stereotypes are TRAs with "ladybrain" etc

I agree you would get some pushback. You should expect that on a gender critical leaning feminism board.

Just don't speak for me in those views. I don't agree with you.

I'm not speaking for you personally. I'm speaking for women's rights.