Aggressive Feminism Boards

[PerverseConverse]

I've been on this board for a while now and long enough to understand the issues and why women are so vocal about them and angry that our rights are threatened.
I'm frustrated reading on other threads, or on social media that this board is aggressive, shoots down discussion, and calls people names if their views don't match the majority. I can't say that I've seen that myself. All I see is intelligent discussion and persuasive arguments. Any goadiness is appropriately dealt with from what I've read as are any views that don't match reality. Maybe that's what upsets people: that their delusions are challenged with indisputable reality.
I'm still new to feminism and learning daily but I see women fighting for other women and prepared to get flak for that. I see some women who have been well and truly brainwashed by the trans movement and by men and the patriarchy in general. And that's the other criticism: that we are too focused on the trans issue. That makes me angry. The trans issue is the major one affecting women and girls at the moment and it's right that we are focused on it.
These complaints are coming from women who are calling themselves feminists and it baffles me completely that feminists can't understand the biggest threat to women and girls.
Now, I'm aware these so called feminists may well be trolls but I don't think they all are. How can some feminists be so opposed to other feminists passionately protecting their rights? Rights that are for ALL women.

Earlywalker nobody denies that gender dysphoria, and other body dysphoria, may have a genetic or epigenetic component. Just like with a person who feels their nose is too big or they should only have one leg, this does not mean that it is their ‚true self‘. It does not change their gamete and I am pretty sure transwomen know their sperm can generally impregnate a female.

As for individual posts, MN only deletes them when reported. Only then only some
Thats the way Mumsnet is run, the mods don't read every post, they only read those that are reported. They don't automatically remove every post that's reported, they read it and consider if it violates the TOS. If they just removed every post that was reported then people would just be reporting every post that they personally disagreed with , or by any poster that they argued with way back in 2001 or whenever.

@Ereshkigal

Being a man is not an insult, being told you can't possibly hold that opinion as a woman. Or you must be a man/TRA to hold that opinion... less pleasant

So who are you referring to on here? Who has no experience of women's issues on here?

I'm not. You were the one who said I wouldn't like a man to tell me to shut up about my opinion because I'm a woman. I said in some cases (my ignorance of men's issues ) it might be fair to say that and some (his sexism concerning me as a woman) definitely not.

it's weird that this thread started with criticism about how posters on FWR post (too aggressive), and has come back, as always to criticism of what they post (too transphobic)

the issue is always 'you fundamentally disagree with me and I don't know what to do about that'

or that's how it looks from here

I think that's because people moved it away from the aggressiveness and decided to change the subject.

Any attempts by myself and other posters to describe the aggressiveness or name calling is met with a collective - no that Doesn't happen.

Polite request to not @mention me, Banana.

imo, my take - I see 3 main problems sometimes raising the temperature of debate here:

1. Many LibFems don't merely state that they support self-ID in our safe spaces they also claim anyone who disagrees is transphobic

That's an insult that angers RadFems and some react to it

Those Libfems seem to believe the Stonewall / TRA definition of transphobia:

“fear or dislike of someone based on the fact they are trans, including the denial /refusal to accept their gender identity.”

I've not seen posters on FWR expressing fear or dislike of specifically transwomen (or transmen)

• although some fear all men for perfectly valid personal reasons

Radfems refuse to believe that men can change sex and we refuse to accept them in single sex places or single sex sport.
We don't accept that is transphobic.

2. TRAs in rl keep trying to silence Radfems by physical assault, online threats of rape, murder & burning and fake calls to the police.

It's natural to feel instinctively wary of people sharing the views of those who are a physical danger to us,
even those who would never condone such threats - but we don't know you !

TRAs are very aggressively trying to shut down our only remaining large platform - FWR - by commercial threats and online pressure

They try to get personal details of MN posters, to dox and intimidate

They pile onto MN and some are quite professional about e.g. sealioning, trying to provoke and get posters banned

It can be difficult sometimes to tell who is out to get us and who is just a feminist we don't know, with a genuiine difference of opinion

3. This isn't just an abstract difference of opinion: Self-ID would increase the danger to women and girls and in the case of sport, remove opportunities for us.

I've debated religion respectfully many times, but I've only had angry arguments over religion with someone using their religious beliefs as justification for blockading abortion centres
Their belief in fantasy was harming real live women & girls, so I was no longer nice & polite.

Suggestions
maybe Libfems can agree to stop calling us transphobic - which happens often - and Radfems can agree to stop calling them men - which happens not so often

It would be good to have more fruitful debates;
even if we all end by agreeing to disagree on some points, hopefully we could find some common ground.

No that isn't all that you posted. You said

Yes. But sometimes if it's something they don't have any experience of they should maybe listen more than talk. Quite ignorant and arrogant and tone deaf when they pontificate cluelessly about women's issues. Such as this one.

So what do you mean? You specifically mention this one. This one what?

Trans issue.

Men are always wading in to have their say on what women should think when it doesn't often affect them.

SInce I accept a man can be a feminist, I also think that a woman can be an MRA
and trans activists need not be trans themselves

So TRAs and MRAs can imo be men or women

I appreciate many on FWR can disagree with all the above, but I won't get offended by that and I would listen to disagreement

maybe Libfems can agree to stop calling us transphobic - which happens often - and Radfems can agree to stop calling them men - which happens not so often

But we are called men often. And other names too.

Then let's get away from how often each insult is used and try to avoid both

I think that's because people moved it away from the aggressiveness and decided to change the subject.Any attempts by myself and other posters to describe the aggressiveness or name calling is met with a collective - no that Doesn't happen.

Agreed.

S0 what do you want to happen ?
Shall we all try not to use insults and get back to the debates instead ?

As one of the posters who has sympathised with how harsh you find the board and has been ignored, I feel like the whole 'shouting into a black hole' thing maybe goes both ways? You don't seem to be acknowledging anything other than your fixed idea of what the board is like.

But we are called men often. And other names too.

It's less often than feminists get called transphobic, I'd put money on it. Considering that has happened repeatedly on this thread while GC me is the only person who got called a man.

Yes. But sometimes if it's something they don't have any experience of they should maybe listen more than talk. Quite ignorant and arrogant and tone deaf when they pontificate cluelessly about women's issues. Such as this one.

But your explanation of trans issues makes no sense in relation to your statement.

Who on here is ignorant,arrogant and with no experience of women's issues? Which is what your statement says

Bloody wish I was a man sometimes. Sign me up for the payrise and patriarchy please.

You don't seem to be acknowledging anything other than your fixed idea of what the board is like.

What would you like to be acknowledged?

Just a note on the subject of being called a man

at least one man has posted on this thread. I can think of a couple of others who are 'regulars' on the board

they don't expect their sex to validate their opinion, and don't declare themselves to be feminists or any creepy shit like that

they just get on with engaging with fellow posters and saying interesting things

being a man on the FWR board - really not so hard

Teddy I think Ereshkigal is saying "such as this one " = such as this issue = the trans issue. Not "such as this one" = the actual discussion on this thread involving you and her and others.

I took it as a reference to Owen Jones, Adrian Harrop and other men who pontificate about why women should shut up on this issue and stop being so nasty to the nice TRAs.

Who on here is ignorant,arrogant and with no experience of women's issues? Which is what your statement says

No one. My statement makes sense in the context of yours. If a poster is called a man it is because they are wrongly perceived as being male. I don't know why you got called a man Teddy but they are some of the reasons I would personally assume someone was one.

took it as a reference to Owen Jones, Adrian Harrop and other men who pontificate about why women should shut up on this issue and stop being so nasty to the nice TRAs.

Yes, that was it. Thank you!

I haven't noticed a man posting on here.

My issue is not with men posting at all.

It's with my being told "your opinion is irrelevant because you are a man" which 1)I'm not a man so my opinion, as a woman, on women's issues is relevant and 2) a man can still have an opinion on women's issues