Aggressive Feminism Boards

[PerverseConverse]

I've been on this board for a while now and long enough to understand the issues and why women are so vocal about them and angry that our rights are threatened.
I'm frustrated reading on other threads, or on social media that this board is aggressive, shoots down discussion, and calls people names if their views don't match the majority. I can't say that I've seen that myself. All I see is intelligent discussion and persuasive arguments. Any goadiness is appropriately dealt with from what I've read as are any views that don't match reality. Maybe that's what upsets people: that their delusions are challenged with indisputable reality.
I'm still new to feminism and learning daily but I see women fighting for other women and prepared to get flak for that. I see some women who have been well and truly brainwashed by the trans movement and by men and the patriarchy in general. And that's the other criticism: that we are too focused on the trans issue. That makes me angry. The trans issue is the major one affecting women and girls at the moment and it's right that we are focused on it.
These complaints are coming from women who are calling themselves feminists and it baffles me completely that feminists can't understand the biggest threat to women and girls.
Now, I'm aware these so called feminists may well be trolls but I don't think they all are. How can some feminists be so opposed to other feminists passionately protecting their rights? Rights that are for ALL women.

Thing is though then they're gone. So then people can say it doesn't happen, prove that it does. Which I can't because they were deleted.

Then take screenshots if you're bothered.

Thast why I was called a man, and I understand it. It took me a few months to realise that I was indeed very wrong, but I do accept it now and am thankful tbh to the FWR regulars who put me straight

So now the FWR made you think "right" you agree with them? Ok, that sounds a bit like brainwashing to me! I hope you didn't' mean it like that lol.

It's not the end of the world being called a man, is it? You know you aren't. The idea that it is some devastating insult is weird.

It is an insult though when it is being used to shut me down, to dismiss my opinion as being irrelevant because "I'm a man".

Just the same as is a man dismissed my opinion simply because "I'm a woman". I'm sure you'd be outraged if someone said that to you on another thread?

Then take screenshots if you're bothered

It would take a special kind of over-invested to be bothered with that.

I'm very sorry you've been insulted on some posts Verbeena and Teddy. It's a public forum, I can only think to encourage you to report anything you think brakes the rules.

Ersh, you are tireless and I'm a little in awe

Then take screenshots if you're bothered.

So I'm meant to take screenshots and then save them just in case I might need them to back up my argument at some point in the future? Ok.

It is an insult though when it is being used to shut me down, to dismiss my opinion as being irrelevant because "I'm a man".Just the same as is a man dismissed my opinion simply because "I'm a woman". I'm sure you'd be outraged if someone said that to you on another thread?

Exactly.

Just the same as is a man dismissed my opinion simply because "I'm a woman". I'm sure you'd be outraged if someone said that to you on another thread?

That's not actually the same thing. I'd be unimpressed if they did it because they were sexist, yes. Not if I was saying something dismissive of men or a bit clueless about the male issues in question.

When I was at a shoot sisters friend really wanted to be American.

She had the accents, words and all. Her uncle lived in the US but she alas was 100% Scottish. She was so desperate to be American though, and used to tell everyone that she really was, despite having never been there. This was when they were in 3rd year (about 15).

If anyone said she wasn't she would get flustered and try to flummox people with the logic that since her uncle lived there, she really was American.

I thought she was very weird and dilusional (and I was only 11).

Ersh, you are tireless and I'm a little in awe

Obviously subjective, I'd say chilling. Awe one way of looking at it.

As for individual posts, MN only deletes them if they're reported. Only then only some.
If people who do make transphobic comments, can't even see when they're being transphobic or refuse to believe that they are even when pointed out, how will they ever know to report them in the first place?

MN deletes anything that actually is transphobic. Maybe its your definition of transphobia that is the issue here. I have yet to see a transphobic post left to stand. And actual transphobic posts are very rare, and usually by brand new users, who are generally shown the door pretty quickly as its obvious they joined solely to be transphobic.

And I wouldn't expect people to report their own posts, which seems to be what the second part of your post is saying. Many FWR members DO report transphobia though, sometimes so many the MN has to send a mass email to reply to all of those who reported. I am guessing from the tone of this post that you believe many FWR posters to be transphobic, but think MN just ignores the transphobia reports. Nah, they do delete transphobia.

When people plop onto threads to talk about how so many posters on the thread are transphobic, they can never give even one post from the thread thats transphobic. Its so odd really. if you are posting somewhere to point out the bigotry on said thread, then actually quoting the bigotry would be easy, no? Its not though, as the transphobia does not exist.

Anyway, last post on the thread, just didn't want to leave while that reply was there to me.

So I'm meant to take screenshots and then save them just in case I might need them to back up my argument at some point in the future? Ok.

Then you're not really bothered, are you? It's hardly onerous. Surely you want this transphobia to be recorded?

What's chilling Verbeena?

Not if I was saying something dismissive of men or a bit clueless about the male issues in question.

I see no reason to dismiss someone from expressing their opinion simply because of their sex. Doesn't matter what subject we are discussing.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and to express it.

They deleted me and I wasn't being anything if the sort. In fact I was making a statement from the point of a (real) qualified therapist.

Ersh, you are tireless and I'm a little in awe

Cheers!

Obviously subjective, I'd say chilling.

deary me the hyperbole!

Reported a lot of posts on a thread one night - all got deleted

Thing is though then they're gone. So then people can say it doesn't happen, prove that it does. Which I can't because they were deleted.

I think a majority of people would prefer that posts are not deleted (except in very extreme circumstances) and that people are then better able to refute them.

I was very upset when having engaged calmly but assertively with a male (who identified as transwoman) who appropriated my (and other women's) experience of having had gyny cancer, a radical hysterectomy and infertility the offensive post was deleted.

It wasn't very long after the new rules came in.

I was disempowered by the deletion, however well-intentioned those who reported and moderated it.

I think civil and free speech should have far less censorship than has been forced upon Mumsnet on this board.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and to express it.

Yes. But sometimes if it's something they don't have any experience of they should maybe listen more than talk. Quite ignorant and arrogant and tone deaf when they pontificate cluelessly about women's issues. Such as this one.

When people plop onto threads to talk about how so many posters on the thread are transphobic, they can never give even one post from the thread thats transphobic.

When they do, they're told it's not. Even when MN deletes, you see "what? What did I do?" posts.
That's why. Even pointed out they refuse to see.

There are things which may look at first glance like transphobia but are actually an attempt to move away from polite-but-vague language because it's impossible to discuss things unless you can be clear what you're discussing.

I remember seeing a really eye-opening post a while back where someone was horrified to see transwoman described as penis-holders. They felt this was awfully transphobic.

But when woman and man change meanings, and female and male, how do you debate, if it's not clear what you're talking about?

Should 11 year old guides occasionally share sleeping accomodation with female leaders?

Should 11 year old guides occasionally share sleeping accomodation with male bodied adults?

Two very different questions. Sometimes you need to use blunt language to discuss these issues properly.

Someone dropping in to grab a screenshot could find examples of blunt language which would look to a right-on bystander like transphobia, but actually are the result of attempts to clarify discussion.

Any actual transphobia is quickly acted upon by MNHQ in my experience.

Then you're not really bothered, are you? It's hardly onerous. Surely you want this transphobia to be recorded?

Of course it's onerous. And I'm sure that MNHQ has a record of the posts.

If it's too onerous for you to record you can't really complain that other people don't see it.

It takes seconds.

it's weird that this thread started with criticism about how posters on FWR post (too aggressive), and has come back, as always to criticism of what they post (too transphobic)

the issue is always 'you fundamentally disagree with me and I don't know what to do about that'

or that's how it looks from here

Yes. But sometimes if it's something they don't have any experience of they should maybe listen more than talk. Quite ignorant and arrogant and tone deaf when they pontificate cluelessly about women's issues. Such as this one.

So who are you referring to on here? Who has no experience of women's issues on here?