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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Aggressive Feminism Boards

999 replies

PerverseConverse · 07/10/2018 09:38

I've been on this board for a while now and long enough to understand the issues and why women are so vocal about them and angry that our rights are threatened.
I'm frustrated reading on other threads, or on social media that this board is aggressive, shoots down discussion, and calls people names if their views don't match the majority. I can't say that I've seen that myself. All I see is intelligent discussion and persuasive arguments. Any goadiness is appropriately dealt with from what I've read as are any views that don't match reality. Maybe that's what upsets people: that their delusions are challenged with indisputable reality.
I'm still new to feminism and learning daily but I see women fighting for other women and prepared to get flak for that. I see some women who have been well and truly brainwashed by the trans movement and by men and the patriarchy in general. And that's the other criticism: that we are too focused on the trans issue. That makes me angry. The trans issue is the major one affecting women and girls at the moment and it's right that we are focused on it.
These complaints are coming from women who are calling themselves feminists and it baffles me completely that feminists can't understand the biggest threat to women and girls.
Now, I'm aware these so called feminists may well be trolls but I don't think they all are. How can some feminists be so opposed to other feminists passionately protecting their rights? Rights that are for ALL women.

OP posts:
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Bolloxio · 07/10/2018 16:29

Sorry, no idea why thats attached to that post. It looked like it hadnt been posted with my last post...and now its attached to 2! Apologies.

Bolloxio · 07/10/2018 16:30

No, people aren't saying there are multiple posters saying the same thing that they are men etc.
They''re saying it's like a gang mentality.

Fair enough. The sealion thing though, its very specific, and I have yet to see anyone called a sealion who was not sealioning.

Like gaslighting actually. People think its means just disagreeing with someone, where thats specific too.

Bolloxio · 07/10/2018 16:32

BrownPaperTeddy

also, just to make sure, I am not saying I disbelieve that you have been called a man. As Is aid sometimes people are who aren't men, I was called a man (or male attitude..same thing really). I just don't believe its as common as some are trying to make out as I read most threads on here and while I have seen it on occasion, its rare. Not entirely sure why being in the majority opinion (which often I am NOT) would make a difference to my ability to read posts...like has been suggested, but it doesn't.

BrownPaperTeddy · 07/10/2018 16:34

No it isnt. Gaslighting is very specific, and its not disagreeing with someone.

Not saying disagreeing is gaslighting.

I'm saying you all telling us that our experiences haven't happened or are different to how we see them because you don't like what we are telling you.

That is gaslighting.

BrownPaperTeddy · 07/10/2018 16:37

Every thread where you have been called a man has been deleted? Thats really odd, as its rare for whole threads to be deleted.

Yes it is odd isn't it? And what is even odder is how threads that actually showed up some GC posters have also been deleted this weekend.

I'm used to seeing posts deleted if they broke the rules but these have been entire threads just taken down. Why? One in particular was very informative about how quick people are to jump on the bandwagon.

BananaBonanza · 07/10/2018 16:38

Bolloxio

One thread Mumsnet HQ had multiple reports of my being a troll. I'd had a string of personal attacks deleted but all my posts had stood. I only know because one apologised when she googled my posting history and realised I clearly did just disagree with the majority voice and another (who clearly hadnt) went off on one about how HQ don't do anything about very obvious trolls who join to just cause trouble.

Its bollocks that some posters are obvious trolls

But the thing is with any group there will be a majority view develop. I've no problem with that. But don't go thinking that makes a welcome environment for dissent and that a fair number if dissenters won't keep up the discussion, they'll just slip away. Cos frankly noone is interested in what they have to say.

Because (And I've heard this before) women should have a place to discuss this matters without interference

Ereshkigal · 07/10/2018 16:38

That is gaslighting.

No, it isn't. Its not a deliberate attempt to fuck with your brain and make you doubt yourself in order to control. It's just rightly or wrongly not believing your account.

UpstartCrow · 07/10/2018 16:39

People disagreeing with you is not gaslighting. Dont make light of domestic abuse.
Gaslighting is an abusers attempt to make someone believe they are mentally unwell, doubt their own senses and lose faith in their own judgement.

BrownPaperTeddy · 07/10/2018 16:41

@Ereshkigal

That is exactly what is being done.

Our experiences are being ate being presented as we misunderstood or none of you on here have ever seen it. The implication being that we are making it up.

BrownPaperTeddy · 07/10/2018 16:43

Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception, and sanity.

Here you go as you like definitions so much.

Doesn't only relate to domestic abuse. In fact one of the first links on google is gaslighting techniques to use in work.

Ereshkigal · 07/10/2018 16:44

The implication being that we are making it up.

But people are allowed not to believe you. That is not gaslighting. It just means that they don't think you're telling the truth. I'm not saying I personally think you're lying or that it's not shitty to think that. But what you are describing is not a deliberate attempt to manipulate you. It just means that some people may think you're making it up.

Ereshkigal · 07/10/2018 16:45

I do like definitions. But it still isn't gaslighting.

BrownPaperTeddy · 07/10/2018 16:47

@Ereshkigal

So you don't believe any of us on here?

What about the OP who actually started this very thread because of what she has seen posted by others on other threads? So those other threads - everyone was making it up too?

Ereshkigal · 07/10/2018 16:49

I specifically said it wasn't me who didn't believe you! Talk to the people who did!

Ereshkigal · 07/10/2018 16:50

And stop @ing me. It's intrusive. I'm right here.

Bolloxio · 07/10/2018 16:52

I'm used to seeing posts deleted if they broke the rules but these have been entire threads just taken down. Why? One in particular was very informative about how quick people are to jump on the bandwagon.

Makes absolutely no sense to me and don't have a clue why HQ would do that. The implication is you believe its because they are trying to help GC posters, however I really doubt this is the case as HQ are much more on the side of TRAs. They changed the rules for ONE section of the website based on TRAs, and the rules are massively biased towards TRAs also.

Its bollocks that some posters are obvious trolls

You don't think any posters are obvious trolls, ever? Hmm

UpstartCrow · 07/10/2018 16:52

Maybe go back and re-read the OP.

BrownPaperTeddy · 07/10/2018 16:53

Don't tell me how to post.

Plenty of people are @ing me and I'm not about to start quoting every post because I'm on my phone and it is a pain in the neck to do.

So unless it's against the rules I will @ so that everyone knows who I am referring to.

VerbeenaBeeks · 07/10/2018 16:54

I'm saying you all telling us that our experiences haven't happened or are different to how we see them because you don't like what we are telling you.That is gaslighting.

Yep. Saying it hasn't happened, we're lying, that something else must have happened instead....twisting of words. Twisty twisty to confuse.

Bolloxio · 07/10/2018 16:54

Our experiences are being ate being presented as we misunderstood or none of you on here have ever seen it.

Eh, so posters saying they have never seen the behavior you describe is gaslighiting? Rather than them just saying they have not seen it?

(I also said I had seen it, people being called men and such, just that its a lot rarer than a couple of posters on this thread are making out. IMO)

Ereshkigal · 07/10/2018 16:55

It's deliberately goady when I'm asking you to stop please. I don't care what others do, but they might also ask you. Please respect people's boundaries.

UpstartCrow · 07/10/2018 16:55

It's an accepted courtesy that we dont @ people.

Bolloxio · 07/10/2018 16:55

OK I do not think anyone is lying. I just have not seen such behavior on the scale some posters are suggesting.

Saying I haven't seen it is not saying anyone is lying. Or that it hasn't happened.

Ereshkigal · 07/10/2018 16:56

I have asked you to stop @ing me. Many people have a problem with it. It's intrusive. Please respect my wishes. I am right here on the thread.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 07/10/2018 16:57

a lot of us are simply staying away from the FWR threads so it's just everyone "on message" posting in agreement with each other.

Grin

I have had 2 thoroughly bruising encounters on FWR, both of them were with gender critical women - one of them was with PosieParker. Oh she made me cross

I neither of the women I argued with flounced and obviously neither did I. I am strongly of the opinion that Posie should still be here, pissing me off.

so from my point of view that statement just isn't true I'm afraid

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