Aggressive Feminism Boards

[PerverseConverse]

I've been on this board for a while now and long enough to understand the issues and why women are so vocal about them and angry that our rights are threatened.
I'm frustrated reading on other threads, or on social media that this board is aggressive, shoots down discussion, and calls people names if their views don't match the majority. I can't say that I've seen that myself. All I see is intelligent discussion and persuasive arguments. Any goadiness is appropriately dealt with from what I've read as are any views that don't match reality. Maybe that's what upsets people: that their delusions are challenged with indisputable reality.
I'm still new to feminism and learning daily but I see women fighting for other women and prepared to get flak for that. I see some women who have been well and truly brainwashed by the trans movement and by men and the patriarchy in general. And that's the other criticism: that we are too focused on the trans issue. That makes me angry. The trans issue is the major one affecting women and girls at the moment and it's right that we are focused on it.
These complaints are coming from women who are calling themselves feminists and it baffles me completely that feminists can't understand the biggest threat to women and girls.
Now, I'm aware these so called feminists may well be trolls but I don't think they all are. How can some feminists be so opposed to other feminists passionately protecting their rights? Rights that are for ALL women.

but if you are arguing that a man cannot be a women biologically with no consideration for there being any grey areas

There are no grey areas. Humans cannot change sex.

It shouldn't matter what some activists are demanding. The politicians and law makers need to apply common sense and refuse to bow to them.
The problem is many groups are bowing to them.
It does matter what TRA groups are demanding.

The demands of the TRA lobby are worrying. They are trying to remove any word to allow biological women to separate themselves as a category. They are openly seeking an end to sex segregated spaces. They want to be in a position where any tom, dick or Harry can say 'I identify as a woman' and nobody can ask questions otherwise they get called transphobic.
Government consultations are being written and publicised in a way that will only get TRA responses.

Even though I hold more central/liberal views on the trans debate from some on FWR, their concerns about the TRA lobby and the implciations for women's rights are spot on.

Why would a male person using male facilities 'remove their dignity'?

I'm not excluding anyone, material reality is. That may not be nice but it just is

'Making their life difficult' sounds to me like a dog whistle to female socialisation - male is uncomfortable, fix it mummy!

The solution is a 4th, unisex space. Not stealing rights and dignity from women.

Well said, @chicken2015
There is an anti trans current hidden under any legit self ID concerns on here, sorry you feel like you can't post either.

Making their life difficult' sounds to me like a dog whistle to female socialisation - male is uncomfortable, fix it mummy!

The solution is a 4th, unisex space. Not stealing rights and dignity from women.

Absolutely. Bolder that bit for emphasis. We see through this.

Self ID is ludicrous and whilst, biologically, I don't think you can change sex, if someone genuinely chooses to under go gender re assignement then I will accept them whole heartedly.

That's how it's been - until now. But now, we're being told it's not enough - we are being forced to police our language and accept a massive range of men who claim the right not only to invade our private/safe spaces, but also to take from women what *belongs' to women.

And that means - for me - that I'm forced to abandon the 'concessions' I was willing to make to the tiny number of transsexuals who wanted to pass as women - because if I don't, I'm forced to accept Karen White, Danielle Muscato, Jacinta Brooks, Pips Bunce and any number of autogynephile men into girls' and women's spaces. And I'm forced to accept that men will gleefully take away women's sports.

There is an anti trans current hidden under any legit self ID concerns on here

Why are our concerns about transgender ideology beyond self ID "anti trans" and not "legit"?

Also just because you are a transwomen dont automatically make you a sexual predator

No one thinks this. Straw man.

VickyEadie has it here.
Most women have been more than happy to support post op genuine trans women for years.
But the new brand of TRA / men's right folk have used trans issues as a Trojan horse to attack women's rights.

Yeah, I have never ever seen anyone 'shouted down' or 'piled on' on here. Yess, a lot of people will post, as the board is busy. But having a lot of people opposing your opinion is not being 'shouted down'. Like, on rare times when I( venture onto AIBU, I have had hundreds and hundreds of posts saying I was being unreasonable..I didn't then go off whinging that people shouted me down or all piled on or whatever, thats just ridiculous. Of course people have differtent opinions on different subjects.

It seems what people want posters here to do, is if someone posts something, only one person reply to that poster, regardless of what they said, as any more than that disagreeing is aggressive shouting down. Its just bloody ridiculous.

Why are our concerns about transgender ideology beyond self ID "anti trans" and not "legit"?

yes

genderism is a quasi religious belief

if I understand it to be nonsense while simultaneously treating its proponents with respect, what's the problem?

I will not support some of their more barking demands, the the same way I would resist sharia law. doesn't mean I'm oppressing any body, or behaving like a bigot

Discourse happens the same way in every Internet forum. We don't all get a ticket and wait our turn to post, so not sure what the issue is with the "piling on". If it's not your cup of tea, you're perfectly free to do something else.

@BernardBlacksWineIcelolly Anyone else though, all transwomen if they don't, you have a problem with.
Got you. As you won't accept them as women.
I'm very much admiring your tenacity this afternoon!

That bit was me. That's not the bit you quoted though and tagged my name, so not exactly sure what you're trying to do except muddy and confuse.
You quoted brownpaperteddy and then said it was me.

But how can you accept someone whose very beliefs you believe to be harmful? Do you not have a fundamental problem with Catholics just based on their beliefs?
I don't have to accept them Verbeena. Just get along with them

Not me. Brownpaperteddy.

Here's what I'm concerned about:

• teenage girls being the human shield for the TRA agenda and transitioning and then sacrificing their fertility and bodily integrity at a very vulnerable age.
• men taking women's awards and sports places (Pips Bunce for instance)
• men not allowing the word woman to define women but redefining it for their own purposes
• the whole GRA which legalises the lie that humans can change from male to female
• 1 million other concerns

So yes, concern about self ID is not the end of it. I'm concerned and horrified by the whole bloody thing.

I had next to no views about Jan Morris easing their own personal discomfort by dressing as a woman although as they themselves have said, they are not a woman. But the whole of the rest of it? Massive shit show. So yes, I'm concerned about all of it. I make no bones about it. This thread isn't about self-ID. It's about angry women and yes, I am angry. Never been violent though.

If i could get to the first thread i posted on i would copy and paste examples. At one point i was told i was being reported and i was being ridiculous.
I find it interesting that all the people who in the majority say its not happening , the issue is if people dont feel comforable enough to post u wont have people come on here to post thats how they were made to feel.

Ah gotcha verbeena, sorry for any confusion

I can assure you I was not trying to muddy and confuse!

What do you mean by anti-trans Verbeena? Am I anti-trans if I believe transwomen are males?

So what is it? (One of my favourite episodes!)

Attempt to redirect the narrative #4215: ok, so you may have some legitimate concerns but these are contaminated so can be/morally should be dismissed.

Mhm.

So frustrated with trans as a group that they were justified in criticising and mocking an individual teenager simply because they were openly trans / non binary.

I'm not completely sure of which this thread this was.

I am aware of a widely viewed and admired tweet by a male person who chose to take a picture of themself in the bathroom whilst asserting being a transwoman and non-binary.

This was part of an online campaign started by Fox & Owl (prominant TRAs) to show #transbody

I am a aware of some young people who have deliberately put themselves forward as spokespeople and SM stars to espouse their personal belief in gender ideology. They receive considerable (often uncritiical) celebration for their views and sometimes financial benefits whilst being very influential especially on children and young people.

A thread was also pulled following a tweet by a young person (Toby Walker) 20yrs+ who was complaining about having scheduled mastectomies delayed for those females who identify as transmen die to the need to treat women with breast cancer.
(one thread remained about this on AIBU)

There was also an organised protest.
This has relevence and potential consequences for women's cancer treatment.

If the person is having considerable influence not just on young people following them but also on politics and policy (eg Lily Madigan) should comment on their posts be forbidden?

But having a lot of people opposing your opinion is not being 'shouted down'. Like, on rare times when I( venture onto AIBU, I have had hundreds and hundreds of posts saying I was being unreasonable..I didn't then go off whinging that people shouted me down or all piled on or whatever, thats just ridiculous. Of course people have differtent opinions on different subjects

That's not the same,though. That's not what people are talking about. Go onto AIBU and ask if you're BU, for everyone to say yes,actually,you are - don't but, but, but, massive drip feed about you dying dog/the fact MIL once full on screamed in your face in the street or whatever then flounce off with "I'M right and you're all just being mean" lol. Hate those types of AIBU Why ask if you don't want to be told lol?!
It's the name calling, the belittling of others and frequent calls of man etc if you dare to have a different opinion to other women.
We're not all hive minds.

Chicken don’t worry bout postin* on here if you can’t spell

I can’t spell but still here
Listening and learning from the best bunch here

have another opinion and back it up

you might just change minds

posters on here who do that have changed mine

It's the name calling, the belittling of others and frequent calls of man etc if you dare to have a different opinion to other women.

I very very rarely see namecalliing on here, and am online a ridiculous amount of the time. 'Belittling' I read as challenging peoples opinions and proving them wrong, or even asking them to explain wtf they are on about rather than soundbytes, which many cannot do.

The calling someone a man thing, I have seen. But 9 times out of 10, its aimed at an obvious man. Like our midnight friends who turn up to tell us how nasty and transphobic we are, but claim to be women who are just 'concerned'. What they come out with, well its obvious they are men, and certainly not feminists. And they are called trolls fairly quickly too. So yes, I have seen this. But generally its deserved/true.

One thing I don't like is the recipe stuff. But its not my place to whinge about that tbh, if other women feel thats the best way to deal with obvious trolling, thats up to them.

Verbeena you do think that it's wrong not to accept that MTF trans are women, you said so to me. It doesn't matter that Bernard quoted the wrong person. It's what you said earlier.

We're not all hive minds.

This is a good point though. People seem to think because one poster on here says/dopes something thats nasty...that means all of FWR is horrible. Like, yeah the odd poster may be OTT or whatever, but that does not mean all are. Most posters here are respectful, do not namecall and just state their views firmly. I do wonder if posters that are male dominated are policed and judged so harshly.