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Original poster

Yet another consultation to fill in - on trans policy in sport

175 replies

qumquat · 30/09/2018 16:27

Just seen this on Twitter from the Sport and Recreation Alliance. Very leading questions as always but it's a quick one to fill in so please do!

www.sportandrecreation.org.uk/pages/consultation-in-focus

Sorry if that's not clicky I'm not sure how to make sure it is.

OP posts:
scepticalwoman · 03/10/2018 21:45

If you can't share policies it might be worth suggesting in that section that they ensure that all policies they quote, look at, recommend etc have all had Equality Impact Assessments conducted and are all fully compliant with safeguarding procedures (they won't have done either)

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 03/10/2018 22:13

That's shit Bolloxio.
I had hoped it wouldn't happen 'in real life', but you've proved me wrong.
I wouldn't have stayed either, we all know the risks when we play rugby but we also know where to draw the line.

theOtherPamAyres · 03/10/2018 22:21

I've made the point that amateur sports need far better guidelines then the one written by a transgender organisation.

The guidelines go all vague and tongue-tied at the very points where clubs need clarification. Well they would, wouldn't they?

The fact that the guidelines were issued by the government gives them importance and authority. The pamphlet is all the clubs have and it's a crock of wotsit. Clubs really need to reflect on how mixed sport affects their insurance premiums, for starters.

underoverunder · 04/10/2018 06:53

theOtherPamAyres. Good point about insurance.

arranfan · 04/10/2018 09:45

My sports organisation still hasn't got back to me.

Nor have I heard back about my comment that the consultation carefully refers you to resources to make sure that you understand some distinctions correctly. The EHRC report on which they rely has some errors that were reported to them July 11 by FPFW.

EHRC is undertaking to correct the errors by the end of this week - so, depending on the time, with an hour or so before the deadline or after it (if it happens).

I asked if the Sports Alliance is going to contact people who've submitted to ask if they need to revise their submission in light of any erroneous guidance and, if they're going to extend the consultation period in light of this error.

crickets

Bolloxio · 04/10/2018 16:11

It is extremely important that you do not keep quiet about your experience Bolloxio

I do keep quiet about it. This is the first time I have even mentioned it on here, and thats only because its highly relevant to the thread.

When I spoke about this to 'friends' a few of them said I and the other women were just being transphobic, how do I think that made the transwomen feel, etc.

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 16:15

Bolloxio
Another MN poster shared a very similar experience to yours earlier this year. She had been playing rugby and also stopped (with other women, I think) when forced to play against a male.

arranfan · 04/10/2018 16:28

R0wantrees - is it this one? Naganovalballs account:

I play rugby and my team had to play against a trans woman and it was fucking brutal. 5 catastrophic injuries (blown knees, shattered collar bones etc) all caused by contact with someone built entirely differently from us. The TW was playing for a military women’s rugby team against our team who play 2 leagues below premiership. Muscle mass, weight and bulk, pace, shoulder strength, everything. It was like hitting/being hit by a train. I play women’s sport and rugby is a tough enough sport without playing against men. I did not sign up for that.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3253337-Trans-women?messages=100&pg=1

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 16:31

It may well have been, I though it was about April time...

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 16:33

There were a lot of sporting threads around the time of the Boston Marathon (it allowed self id to the women's marathon) & also the Commonwealth Games (re the NZ weightlifter Laurel Hubbard)

Bolloxio · 04/10/2018 16:43

That sounds horrendous, and also was the kind of thing that me and the other women left to avoid. Its just so dangerous.

arranfan · 04/10/2018 16:46

My sporting association has just emailed me to say that they had removed their guidance from the website because they're currently updating it to conform with updated IOC guidance (unspecified) and it won't be available to include in the consultation!

Still no word on the incorrect EHRC guidance.

RustyParker · 04/10/2018 18:29

Just filled the consultation in as my DC compete in several sports.

Hopefully a little bump for the thread Smile

Disgustingwoman · 04/10/2018 19:54

I sent this to my DDad who has lots of involvement in local sports. He said he couldn't fill it in. I asked why. He said because the reality of it was that 'meat and two veg in a woman's changing room would not be accepted by us, full stop. We would simply find a legitimate way to end their membership. We are not equipped to deal with these issues and we would not put up with it'. I've begged him to fill it in with that.

haXXor · 05/10/2018 02:36

Done.

haXXor · 05/10/2018 02:40

@Nagsnovalballs if you've not filled this in, please do.

pennydrew · 05/10/2018 07:22

Bolloxio Have you ever thought of writing to the RFU? This is not ok. I know RFU are male dominated but women’s rugby is a growing sector, the fastest growing rugby sector in NZ so maybe here too. All they care about is money. If they think women are leaving the sport, a sport they’re throwing 400 million at to grow, maybe they’d listen to women this time.

Keeptrudging · 05/10/2018 08:31

Pennydrew, girls/womens rugby is one of the fastest growing sports here too. There's a big push by rugby associations to encourage more girls into it.

pennydrew · 05/10/2018 08:36

Keeptrudging That’s good to hear, hopefully that means it being offered as a sport in school more widely, but I think there should be an effort to work with the RFU on this issue. They need to hear from women in rugby.

Keeptrudging · 05/10/2018 09:01

It was 'offered' as a sport choice at DD's school. Unfortunately when DD chose it (and was super-excited that it was on offer), she was then made to do a different sport as only 2 girls had chosen it. Scottish Rugby are doing a lot of groundwork to build the sport. There is funding from them, coaching support, development programmes for girls - they're trying to build strong future national teams, and I'm quite impressed by them.

Nagsnovalballs · 05/10/2018 09:10

Yep, I filled it in last week. Thanks for the tag!
To be clear, I quit rugby because of a mildly serious knee injury (torn ligament, not a blown knee) caused by a natal woman and I couldn’t commute easily for work, so it was an age/life stage decision. But it’s the rate of injuries and severity that increase exponentially when natal men play against women, which I witnessed when my team played against one with a TW who had been through male puberty and lived as a (military!) man for 10+ years with the strength and conditioning that entails

Keeptrudging · 05/10/2018 09:13

The only way to get the message across is for girls/womens rugby teams to walk off the pitch en masse and refuse to play on safety grounds. Keep doing it until their clubs get the message that this is unacceptable.

OrchidInTheSun · 05/10/2018 12:31

Just filled this in. Thanks for the reminder :)

arranfan · 05/10/2018 21:36

I heard back from Sports and Recreation this evening (after 17:00). They thanked me for highlighting the error but declined to extend the window for comments to inform their response to the consultation.

They suggest that I should respond to the government consultation directly, prior to the deadline on 19 October.

I'm underwhelmed by their response to this error.

However, - anyone who missed it, there may still be an opportunity to comment on this issue if you're prepared to respond as an individual.

arranfan · 06/10/2018 10:14

However, - anyone who missed it, there may still be an opportunity to comment on this issue if you're prepared to respond as an individual.

Sports and Recreation meant the GRA consultation - they are happy to miss the point in a big way. But, the upside is that I hope they correct their own summary of the flawed evidence that is submitted that was based on the flawed guidance they gave.

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