Yet another consultation to fill in - on trans policy in sport

[qumquat]

Just seen this on Twitter from the Sport and Recreation Alliance. Very leading questions as always but it's a quick one to fill in so please do!

www.sportandrecreation.org.uk/pages/consultation-in-focus

Sorry if that's not clicky I'm not sure how to make sure it is.

So - you don't have to engage with me, that's fair enough. But I am free to respond to your points, and I will do so.

Respond to what you want, but don't verbally abuse me thanks. Your recent post was much more civil. Ish.

You really should think to yourself perhaps this anonymous person in talking to on the Internet who I acknowledge myself had talked a lot on sports threads with a lot of information to hand regarding the area; perhaps she might have a reason for clarifying the intent of that brief questionnaire.

But hey, doesn't matter, I literally DID NOT come here for a debate tonight. You lot spam the hell out of that link if you must, and if you are genuinely involved in the field please do crack on.

You carry on agreeing with each other debating this issue as long as you like, but I swore off bothering when I realised only a tiny minority were interested in anything other than personal attacks. If no-one is prepared to ease up on that I'm afraid you really will have "no debate". It's hardly short of masochism, joining in round here.

RatRolyPoly

You want an end to women's events, then. Your silence says it all.

Why would you do that?

Stop trying to silence women.

I swear you must actually be a bot. Are you a bot? Is this all you're programmed to say?

It's just such a ridiculous little mantra. Me, a woman, with the words I am saying, would wish women didn't utter words. And I am being told, as a woman, to stop uttering my words because I want women to stop uttering words.

It can only be a bot.

Night all. Have fun doing the equivalent of a TRA pile-on. I've heard a lot about those round here, but I've only ever seen it in reverse...

Rat

Just one question:

Is it fair to have people with male muscle mass and bone structures competing against women? Will women lose out?

Your thoughts?

Boys' U15 1500m national record: 3.59.20

Girls' U15 1500m national record: 4.21.03

Power of Ten boys' rankings go to number 57: 4.07.77

But yes, let's consult on whether or not we allow boys to self-identify as girls and run against girls...

You lot spam the hell out of that link if you must

Taking part in a public consultation = "spam the hell out of that link". Thank you for finally being honest about what you are up to, which is preventing people who play women's sport, who have children who play women's sport, who coach women's sport, from expressing their views.

I'm on the side of the girls on my son's rugby team. I don't want them to grow up having to face the rugby equivalent of Hannah Mouncey in the scrum.

If I sound like I'm angry, it's because I am. Spectacularly, incandescently angry. Angry and furious that anyone can look at a picture like this one and not think of the women whose limbs (Mouncey, who is an Aussie rules footballer, has already broken a woman's leg) and spinal columns are at risk. And angry that someone wants us to all sit silently like nice girls and let this happen, because "this consultation isn't aimed at you..."

I don't get why RatRolyPoly won't just answer the reasonable questions I've asked. It's not a "pile on" when Rat has told us we shouldn't get involved in a consultation on something that will dramatically affect girls and women's sport.

I've even given evidence as to why I ask.

I'm a member of a sports club that actually doesn't separate by sex except in the changing rooms.

And do you know what? Female retention after the initial training and intro sessions is appalling. Because we don't have the reach, upper body strength or anything really to win other than in freakish conditions. And it gets fairly tedious.
Most women who carry on are now resigned to just doing the odd race knowing you won't win a series trophy, or to doing the catering /bar duties.

It's very sad

I'm a member of a sports club that actually doesn't separate by sex except in the changing rooms.

Don't hold your breath on that bit, either.

Hate to break out to you but men and women play hockey together - like, on the same team together against other teams of men AND women with no special rules at all - both nationally and internationally. There are leagues, knockout competitions and very famous festivals garnering almost the whole hockey playing community playing the mixed sex variant perfectly safely

That's their choice, as adults, to make. The majority of female hockey players choose not to play mixed sex hockey and that choice should remain. My Dd has no desire to ever play hockey with males and was somewhat relieved when she moved from U10 to U12 and mixed sex juniors ended.

I've also mentioned previously the safeguarding issues. 13 year old girls can play in adult matches. They meet in the communal changing room before the matches. How's that going to work if self-Id comes in and the male identifying as a woman demands their right to be in that changing room too?

Bold fail. The whole of the first paragraph is a quote

I assume as a coach that I can give my opinions

I have provided my views as a mum, spectator and educator. I didnt see anywhere on the consultation that I wasnt allowed to participate in this consultation.

Rat has... Views on these things.

I am a sports coach and have filled this in.

If people honestly can’t see the problem with male-born people competing in women’s sports, there really is no hope for a debate with them.

Amazing how invested some posters are in keeping all us women on the right track.

I didn't say that thing that you can clearly see that I said by scrolling back a couple of pages!

This thread is (unintentionally) hilarious.

I've filled it in.
Thanks so much for sharing.

I thought I'd offer some more statistics on girls and boys in athletics, so here are the stats for U15 200m national records:

Boys: 21.99
Girls: 25.71

You might think, ooh, not such a big difference - but then scroll down the timings and find that you don't to that time (25.71) in the boys' rankings until you get to number 612.

See how even boys with mediocre times compared to other boys could, if they self-id, destroy the girls' sports?

At least it's keeping the thread near the top of the board so more people will see it.

I've identified as Seb Coe and filled it in

I'm going to fill it in. My tennis club has introduced girl only coaching sessions as they have found more girls are keen to participate if there are no boys. Judy Murray is leading this initiative to get more girls participating.

The boys tend to dominate coaching sessions, tell the girls they're rubbish and push the girls out of the way to take the shot when we play our games when there are 10 or so kids on the court.

At an adult level, most players prefer to play in single sex groups. We do play mixed occasionally but it's not as enjoyable for everyone as the men don't feel they can play to their full potential and even so are hitting much much harder than the women.

Its much more enjoyable and fair if everyone is playing people that are of a similar physical ability. At the end of the day you don't want to either win too easily or be absolutely thrashed. It's much better for everyone if the players are close matched in abililty.

At least it's keeping the thread near the top of the board so more people will see it.

Indeed!

U17 national records for 800m

Boys: 1.47.36
Girls: 2.02

Boys' times only go to the 64th boy - and that's 1.52.84

But yeah, let boys who identify as girls compete with girls, it won't destroy athletics for girls at all, will it?

WokerThanWoke Mon 01-Oct-18 11:22:18

At least it's keeping the thread near the top of the board so more people will see it.

That's a good point.

U20 800m national records.

Men: 1.45.64
Women: 1.59.75

Men's times go to number 85 - the time is 1.49.2

Anyone on here think it's fair to let men who identify as women compete with women?