Yet another consultation to fill in - on trans policy in sport

[qumquat]

Just seen this on Twitter from the Sport and Recreation Alliance. Very leading questions as always but it's a quick one to fill in so please do!

www.sportandrecreation.org.uk/pages/consultation-in-focus

Sorry if that's not clicky I'm not sure how to make sure it is.

Oops, my finger slipped and I accidentally filled it in. I'm a teacher. As part of my job, I teach PE. DD plays rugby. You can FOTTFSOFATFOSM if you think I will EVER support male-bodied players in girls' rugby. It would be incredibly dangerous and highly likely to jeapordise the future of women's rugby.

I find myself staggered that even some women seem to think the notion is perfectly fine - although some just say 'I'm not interested in sport', as if that's any sort of sensible response.

It's almost as if women on a feminist board who're not interested in sport are interested in feminism, to which the issue of women's sports is entirely relevant.

Sport is one of my DD's 'safe spaces', where she can push herself, take risks, make mistakes in a supportive all-female environment. Contrast that with PE in school where boys frequently do everything they can to not pass to girls, and spend a lot of time putting girls down so they can big themselves up.

Anyone who feels that men competing against women is fair? Love to hear your arguments, but please refer to data and statistics.

Filed out the consultation, though would have thought any sane person could understand there is no place for a biological male in a womens changing room or sports team. Depressing.

Just filling it in now. Teacher & mother of sporty girls.

Also, I don't much care for being told 'Nothing to see here, dear! Wind your neck in!' by someone with...views on this sort of thing. Which do not align with my values.

Shared with our PE department, & my daughters' coaches, so that's another couple of dozen people.

I've also shared with PE teachers I know. The ones I know are aghast at the implications of this for girls' and women's sport.

Our Head of PE was quite keen to fill it in.

He has a very talented footballing daughter. Aged 12, tiny little thing, super skilled & fast. Frequently plays up for the U16 girls, because she's a bit amazing.

Head of PE read the link just before he went out to teach footy to the year 11 boys - hulking 6 footers for the most part.

That was all it took for him to forward this to every other PE teacher he knows.

That's great. The more responses they get from people working in sport the better.

done, tits really quick

opps typo it's , not tits. sorreeee

Bump

Thank you, have filled it in :)

And I also don’t appreciate anyone telling women what we can or cannot participate in. We are capable of following simple instructions and nowhere did it say it was only for a certain group. Most of us are parents if not also competing in sports ourselves.

I’d love to know what the RFU position is on this. That is one sport where it would be horribly obvious how inappropriate it is to mix the sexes in sport.

Very relevant to the sports consultation - as Dr Fond of Beetles comments:

The performance gap between male and female athletes is utterly astounding; it’s not a “gap”, it’s the Grand Canyon.

twitter.com/FondOfBeetles/status/1046753949758500866

It's a very good blog post by her and that Twitter thread is worth looking through.

I’d love to know what the RFU position is on this. That is one sport where it would be horribly obvious how inappropriate it is to mix the sexes in sport.

RFU policies:
www.englandrugby.com/mm/Document/MyRugby/Education/01/32/50/43/TransgenderTranssexual(RugbySafeEssentialGuide)May2017FINAL_Neutral.pdf

www.englandrugby.com/about-the-rfu/rfu-inclusion-programmes/gender/
(extract)
"From U12s onwards, girls and boys are no longer permitted to play together.

However, a player may be eligible to participate in their chosen gender subject to approval from the RFU on a case by case basis.

If a player would like to play and train with their chosen gender then the RFU would require the following;

Parental consent and supporting statement
Players DOB, weight and height
Supporting statement from the school or club
Any supporting medical note that may be relevant in considering the application
This would then be shared with a small panel to determine if approval should be granted. In the meantime, whilst this process in underway, the player is permitted to play within their biological gender group, if they feel comfortable with this."

I saw another policy from the RFU a few months ago which I think also included the 'standard' policy re allowing people to use the changing facilities of their identified gender. It wasn't on these though so would need clarifying

For any specific sport, a google search of the governing body and 'transgender policy' should locate the relevent document.

I think the RFU have got a good policy on the face of it, it depends how the 'supporting statement from the school or club' is delivered - is it a genuine response from the prospective player's team and club mates where they feel able to voice any concerns without fear of being labelled transphobic bigots, or would there be pressure to 'be nice'...
From my own experience, I would be happy playing with trans men, but not trans women. I was used to coming off worse in many encounters, being smaller than average, but at least most women are fairly bouncy. And not completely out of my league physically.

I think the RFU have got a good policy on the face of it

If you have a look at it though, the decision seems to be made on a formula about the ranges for height & weight by sex.

So whilst it will definitely exclude all of the Englan XV ([grim]), a male who was 5' 9" and medium build and of average strength may likely be accepted.

There was a thread earlier this year when a poster commented on her direct experience of women playing amateur rugby who had stopped because they were playing against a male.

Thanks for the RFU info, it’s hard to know what they do in practice I think.

All I need to do is switch a male prop into a female rugby team and everyone would see how ludicrous and dangerous it would be for any of the females, let alone a little scrum half or full back. It beggars belief they’d even consider it.

Well hopefully there would not be the required support from the Club or school, and the Panel would not approve it.
I'm 100% sure my university coach would never have given approval for a man to join our team.

I haventgottimeforthis At the moment maybe common sense would usually prevail. But things are changing. In Canada which is further down the self-id road in law and social convention, a big student sport body has just announced student athletes can play in their preferred gender with no hormone treatment. Affects 56 member institutions. Wasn't only reported in pink news but here's that link
www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/09/29/trans-canadian-students-sports/ They've changed from sex segregated, to gender id segregated sports in one policy.

Thanks for the RFU info, it’s hard to know what they do in practice I think.

The issue is the policy.

The reasons why the RFU say that over 12yrs old girls are not allowed to compete against boys are speifically because of the sexed differences between males and females.

This is especially relevent in contact sports.

The RFU policy only allows for a refusal under specific circumstances.

It may be worth asking the RFU for their impact statement on the possible implications for girls and women taking part.
It likely won't have one, or rather there will have been a limited risk assessment which has enabled the case by case.
Regardless of height and weight, would female rugby players want to play against males?

In Canada all Universities have just announced that sport will be open to self-identified gender.