Shocking levels of transphobia

[Semp]

I have been lurking here for a while and reading through the posts on a daily basis. I am truly shocked with the levels of transphobia that exist on this board. I have read what has been posted and the arguments that have been put across against the reform of the Gender Recognition Act; and all I see are the same arguments that have been used in the past when it came to changes in the laws relating to any other minority. That being that predators will exploit this change to abuse women/girls, yet everytime this has happened in the past the claims that they would did not come to fruition.

I can see no change as to how things would be any different with this change. As now things currently stand trans women can already use womens toilets, are put on ladies wards in hospitals when getting treatment, can use female changing facilities in swimming baths and so on. This has been happening for decades and Armageddon hasn't happened.

There are many other areas of life that this energy could be and should be directed at, which would make a huge difference to the lives of women. Without victimizing and stigmatizing a minority group that already suffers enough as it is.

Even if they found out that brains were made of different sorts of cheese it wouldn't change the fact that humans have sexed bodies.

I am a woman.

I was born a baby girl, grew up as a girl and became a woman when I reached my late teens.

I am not transphobic.

I understand that there will be individuals who cannot be reconciled with their bodies and society's gender based expectations based on their sex.

I understand that gender dysphoria can be medically diagnosed, is a distressing condition to live with and that living as the opposite sex can relieve the distress.

I also understand that the Gender Recognition Act and the Equality Act are important pieces of legislation.

However, I am against self ID.

One's sex and all the gender based expectations associated with it is not a role.

One's sex cannot be changed like a piece of clothing.

I support medically diagnosed transexuals, who have probably shared toilets with me, without me knowing for years.

I reject self identified men and women, who believe that sex is 'fluid' and can 'fluctuate' from day to day.

I reject the notion that women who do not conform to the rigid gender stereotypes associated with the female sex are not women.

I reject the notion that men who do not conform to the rigid gender stereotypes associated with their sex are not men.

I reject the notion that butch lesbians and effeminate men are 'transgender' and must be regarded as of the opposite sex.

I reject self ID.

I reject any attempt to shut down debate and to silence those who disagree with the "transwomen are women" dogma.

I think we need a yawn emoji.

We keep on saying 'it's about men in women's and girls' spaces' - they keep on ignoring this and claiming we think all TW are dangerous.

Then they find a few women from the past 100 years who committed violent crimes and do their "Aha! Gotcha!". We tell them men commit violent crime in massively greater numbers and it's men we're afraid of - and the fact that self-id makes it impossible to tell who is nice and safe and who is an opportunistic predator.

Then they do the absolutely non-science claims about brains, intersex people (ignoring the fact that intersex people are still male sex or female sex) and we ask for evidence, of which there is none.

Now I’m off to reread Germaine Bunbury’s great classic, “On the Semiotics of Soup”.

Do try to find Bunbury's out-of-print classic "Shocking transphobia - how lies, false claims and hyperbole entirely undermine and destroy TRA arguments'.

I can see no change as to how things would be any different with this change. As now things currently stand trans women can already use womens toilets, are put on ladies wards in hospitals when getting treatment, can use female changing facilities in swimming baths and so on. This has been happening for decades and Armageddon hasn't happened.

If this is what you think then why bother changing the law?

It is highly plausable that trans people may well be wired up in their brain differently to men/women. Which would mean that it was not a choice and not a simple biological argument; in that you have an XY so you are male and you have XX so you are female

No it isn't.

Even if it was, what does male / female even mean in the brain with no body? Can you define those terms without resorting to stereotypes which most women here defy daily?

Can I ask how you have come to be lurking on this board for so long? I mean you’re American right? So how has an American TRA ended up posting on a largely British, largely female site? I mean you could have just as easily stumbled across Piston Heads. Not looking for a fight I hope? 🤔

Anyway, since you’re here, and American, I assume you’ve heard of Rachel Dolezal? What’s your opinion on her? Is she black? If not, why not?

Thanks for stopping by

Semp, calling transwomen men is a blatant example of understanding the meanings of words. Man=adult human male. Male = the organisms that are equipped to produce sperm (male gamete). I am sorry that you feel that the acknowledgement of reality is transphobic, but rest assured, that is only a feeling of yours. Nothing more.

For all we know the majority of trans people could well be intersexed

1. The preferred term for what we used to call intersex is having a disorder of sexual development. I don't think the term was ever "intersexed"
2. having a disorder of sexual development does not mean you are somehow between the sexes. You're a male with a DSD or a female with a DSD.
3. If you have, as any number of vocal transwomen have, fathered a child, then it is vanishingly unlikely (?impossible?) that you have a DSD
4. Intersex groups have repeatedly asked not to be co-opted in this - it is disrespectful to them to continue to do so.
5. The recommended treatment plan for children with DSD is very much against intervention in minors: these children should be left to grow and develop normally, and any decisions about surgery should be left to them to make when they are adults and can decide for themselves. This is in stark contrast to, for example, the recommendations from Mermaids for puberty blockers, social transition, affirmation etc.

tl; dr: your attempt to co-opt people with a medical disorder is disrespectful and unscientific.

Is it me, or are we getting a very low class of disrupter these days? It's all the arguments from 1-2 years ago. Very tiresome. Even the proper TRAs have moved on now.

i know, LangCleg. And they all use the same tiresome arguments that they are unable to defend.

Agree with you OP, it's quite astonishing and compared to so many other topics that are discussed here with amazing insight, the arguments are superficial and bussed towards the status quo. Dragging out the figure of 82% opposing a law rather proves my point, shows a very limited understanding of what democracy means. Protection of minorities is a key feature of both modern democracy and human rights.

If you feel the debate lacks nuance catlady, then by all means please do engage and bring some.

I'm assuming "bussed towards the status quo" is a typo for "biased towards the status quo", but I still can't understand what you mean by this. Do you mean having a preference for retaining single sex spaces where necessary and appropriate, in line with the Equality Act? Because yes, I'm very much in favour of not just keeping that status quo, but beefing it up, and I don't have to be bussed anywhere to think so.

Another new poster who has started one thread (this one) and commented twice.

There seems to be loads of these 'but I don't get it's faux naive threads

Yes, I would like the status quo in which I can get changed at the pool without seeing random cock in the women's changing room to remain as is.

The lady brain thing always makes me think of the Steve Martin film the Man With Two Brains. where he falls in love with a brain in a jar.
Dr Huffhaar

@MaisyPops, it's called sea lioning

"Folk" is a Yorkshireism as well as Scottish.
As in "There's nowt so queer as folk"
I can say that as a self identified Northern Woman.

Hi catlady

Can you quickly explain why you think its a basic human right for males to be allowed to remove sex segregation from females?

Itd be really appreciated, everyone else has ran away when I asked

You know what I wish? I wish that somebody would discover that trans people actually do have some sort of biological difference to non trans people of the same sex and it could easily be identified by a simple blood test.

Catlady, what specific rights do transpeople not currently have that non trans people do?

For our many lovely lurkers...

The sexing of human beings is really pretty simple. There are 2. Biology is absolutely clear about that, I promise.

Disorders of sexual developmemt are rare. They usually cause people issues by puberty and usually result in infertility. No, there are not lots of intersex people who just don't know they are. Even my friend who didn't know she had a DSD until she was 35 knew she was living with significant issues well before that age - she just didn't know the cause.

Intersex doesn't equal trans. Many intersex people find it hugely offensive to be brought into the trans debate. They have asked not to be. Female and male brains are not 'wired differently'. If the op believes they are they need to provide peer-reviewed evidence.

Then we come on to claims that are often bounded around; that one transperson has done something bad to women so we should tar all transpople with the same brush as an example that self id does not work.

Half of the trans people in prisons have committed a sex offense. Far from looking at trans offenders and saying 'all trans people are bad' we are saying how can you tell? You have two men standing in front of you saying they are trans. One man is a predator, one isn't. How do you tell which one? As men commit most crimes it is logical that we don't want men in certain spaces. Some women are violent, yes. But we have good solid data telling us that most violence is male. It is exceptionally rare for women to be seriously violent.

Then we have had the numerous threads on the repealing of the GRA, claiming that it is not needed. Which in itself is an anti-trans position to hold.

You cannot change sex. Why are we telling this huge lie as a society that you can? Is participating in a delusion en masse healthy? Do we give anorexics liposuction?

Agree with you OP, it's quite astonishing and compared to so many other topics that are discussed here with amazing insight, the arguments are superficial and bussed towards the status quo. Dragging out the figure of 82% opposing a law rather proves my point, shows a very limited understanding of what democracy means. Protection of minorities is a key feature of both modern democracy and human rights.

Such tosh in one paragraph.

Biased towards the status quo of sex segregation, safeguarding and women's rights. But unsurprising that you disapprove of all three.

The figure of 82% in the Pink News survey was a figure that trans demands activists were hoping to 'drag out'. Unfortunately it's not the numbers they anticipated. Given it was authored by pink news.

No one has taken a representative vote on this. Personally I'm all for it. There is nothing women would like more.

Transphobia?

More like complete and utterly trans-boredom

Protection of minorities is a key feature of both modern democracy and human rights.

As is curbing the supremacist tendencies of middle class white males.