Shocking levels of transphobia

[Semp]

I have been lurking here for a while and reading through the posts on a daily basis. I am truly shocked with the levels of transphobia that exist on this board. I have read what has been posted and the arguments that have been put across against the reform of the Gender Recognition Act; and all I see are the same arguments that have been used in the past when it came to changes in the laws relating to any other minority. That being that predators will exploit this change to abuse women/girls, yet everytime this has happened in the past the claims that they would did not come to fruition.

I can see no change as to how things would be any different with this change. As now things currently stand trans women can already use womens toilets, are put on ladies wards in hospitals when getting treatment, can use female changing facilities in swimming baths and so on. This has been happening for decades and Armageddon hasn't happened.

There are many other areas of life that this energy could be and should be directed at, which would make a huge difference to the lives of women. Without victimizing and stigmatizing a minority group that already suffers enough as it is.

Hello to all lurkers - I was one myself for a long time. As others have already said, if you see transphobia do report it.

However if you find it distressing that we place the safety and dignity of women and girls ahead of the feelings of men then, as Mumsnet HQ would say, perhaps you should think about whether a feminist board is really the place for you.

It's somewhat ridiculous to show faux concern for Jewish and Muslim people and their faiths when self ID and male bodied people in women's spaces means that some women from those cultures will no longer be able to use those spaces themselves, along with many other women for many other reasons, mostly to do with male violence. Trans people always have a choice of places - and would be supported in campaigning for their own. The women they chase from women only provisions will have nowhere else left to go. There is no way to stretch that to make it sound morally right.

Never come to fruition - everything women have stated as a potential risk already has happened. Women assaulted in prisons, prison officers talking about the fear, intimidation and distress of female prisoners, women and girls assaulted in changing rooms and toilets by males some of whom used a trans identity to access them, women driven out of hospital provisions because male bodied people's right to be in women's spaces trumped their right to feel safe - did you see the poster the other day discussing their experience of being sexually assaulted in a hospital room by a person with a trans identity, present in a private women's space via self ID? Look up the cases of Jess Bradley, Aimee Challenor, David Challenor, the legal history of Jane Fae's work, leaders in advising on strategies that increase access for male bodied people into women and girls' spaces. There is massive harm to women and girls, clearly evidenced, and massive 'unintended consequences' thundering towards us like an articulated truck. And you'd like us to just keep quiet?

I get that your personal reality may be different, goodness knows in trying to understand where the TRAs are coming from I have encountered plenty of 'if the facts don't fit my narrative they don't exist' and selective realities, but in law, in society, we have to go with objective, provable, fact based, and the evidence is more than in. Law and rights also have to be balanced, with no one group being awarded exceptional or extraordinary rights over others. Other people have rights too.

OP please do come back and engage in the conversation that you started and share the examples of transphobia that you mentioned.

You need to back up your claims

I am not trans ‘phobic’.

I have no wish to see people discriminated against, vilified, excluded because of the way they feel or express gender.

But I do not agree with the replacement of gender over sex as a definition of rights. I do not accept that my own biological sex is of no relevance or meaning. I do not accceot the re-definition of scientific truths which TAs demand.

My biological sex is the basis of my status as a minority. Since time immemorial by men, and now by Transwomen.

I will fight misogyny whenever I find it in men or in Transwomen. And I frequently find it in the actions and words of TAs.

Your post is misogynistic and dismissive of women’s personal boundaries. You give no actual examples of this phobia you speak of nor any indication you reported any of it. It’s just another generalised and meaningless accusation against a large group of women, without any substance to it whatsoever. Women fighting to maintain existing rights in law and engaging in political debate about words used to describe us, is not phobic. Attempting to silence us with emotional manipulation and baseless accusations, is anti-women and I have reported your post.

foxy

Pleas continue. I don't think you've quite flung enough mud around.

What is foxy on about? Sounds like they haven't read a single thread on here. Maybe they are tired or sleep deprived. Otherwise why would a solicitor type a post with so many incidences of misspelling and poor grammar?

If you start a post about the “shocking levels of transphobia” you really need to provide some examples. Otherwise it looks like you are simply making it up.

Mumsnet have a specific policy regarding this issue which is pinned at the top of the FWR board. MN don’t allow transphobia so please do report any that you see. We all do too.

If you can’t find any examples of transphobia to post then you are not being genuine, but if you still honestly think there is transphobia here then I would suggest that it is your definition of transphobia that may be the problem. It doesn’t mean anything less than uncritical acceptance of the trans ideology fortunately.

Haven't been on mn for a while, good to see things haven't changed.

OP: I'm tired of all the transphobia!

Everyone else: Where? OK, when did you last see it? Have you retraced your steps? Are you sure you had it?

Oh THANKS op.
Finally we've got some proper definitions!

Transphobia = any one (mostly scummy women though) who dares to point out any dodgy behaviour of a trans rights activist! Got it!
Thank you so much xoxoxo

I bet you also believe:
Women = anyone who feels like one.

I think that's sexist crap and I will always call that out.

OP how are you defining transphobia?

I've posted this elsewhere today, but I think it's a good one for people who have trouble distinguishing Perception from Reality

From Father Ted:

I think you mean "Shocking levels of people not agreeing with me". MN could you edit the title please?

What is it with the 'folk' business

Ive very rarely seen it used except when talking about transfolk

What happened to using the word people...did i miss a memo

The great gender theorist Germaine Bunbury once posited a direct correlation between accusations of transphobia and Friday nights.

Rufus

Or Enid Blyton. Those Faraway Tree elves and pixies

You’re wrong op.

No one here has a fear of trans people.

Many here wish to protect the rights of women.

Many here have lived experience of what being female from birth means and how this impacts the way we live our lives. This drives our fight to preserve women’s rights for many of us.

Many of us want to protect children. Not just our own. We don’t want anyone’s child to be put through unnecessary medical treatment.

If there were no consequences to our sex, we’d be all like ‘crack on’. But there are huge consequences to our sex. Massive.

So OP, thanks for engaging (oh, you didn’t) but maybe take a step back and have a little think 🙄

It’s understandable that people who struggle with the definition of ‘woman’ (adult human female) also struggle with the definition of transphobia.

I’m going to suggest it may be an issue with the definition of words in general that is the underlying problem, rather than it actually being about women/ feminists.

There is a pedants corner on MN I believe, which is devoted to issues of language and grammar, perhaps you could ask MN to move this thread there OP?

Lemonjello

Yes. I myself have had to seek advice, on learning that SnapDragons weren't, in fact, dragons

I've had a tough week and I really want what some of whatever foxyliz is smoking so I too can float off into that parallel universe she inhabits

OP, as they say: see it, say it, sorted. If you see transphobia, report it to MNHQ and let them sort it. They are happy to.

Don't scold us like naughty children though. Have the courage of your convictions and debate with us if you want to get your point across.

Or Enid Blyton. Those Faraway Tree elves and pixies

Good point chysanthemum

I think i may have blocked throse from my memory, its only as Ive got older that i realise how fucked up those stories were

Rufus

They scared me. The one with the saucepan for a head. Was he a man or a saucepan? Could he boil eggs? Who can say? What is reality?

There’s no shame in it Chrysanthemums, and OP

I can see no change as to how things would be any different with this change. As now things currently stand trans women can already use womens toilets, are put on ladies wards in hospitals when getting treatment, can use female changing facilities in swimming baths and so on. This has been happening for decades and Armageddon hasn't happened.

And it's going to stop. Blame the anti women activists and transactivists who thought they could treat women like dirt and no one would notice.

We're 51 % of the population. We spend and we vote.

Oops.

Ah. Another "OMG MN is so transphobic" thread in which the OP lobs an accusation and then: (1) fails to return to the thread (2) claims that they can't provide evidence because the relevant posts have been deleted and / or (3) repeats the accusation but fails to provide evidence.

If the thread goes on long enough, a poster (possibly the OP) will come in to say their child is trans and it's so hard and terrible and we mean terrible GC MNers are so mean and terrible. For a time, the thread will be diverted with hairpats. At some point the handmaidens will come in and to say how mean and terrible we mean terrible GC MNers are. When pressed to provide evidence of transphobia on MN, they will revert to one of the three points above. Then, posters who have no idea of what the issue is will arrive and say "I haven't RTFT but..." or "I don't know what the issue is, but..."

The intersex issue has already been raised, of course, despite that intersex conditions have nothing to do with being trans.

It's like the joke about the prison where everyone has heard the same jokes so many times that all an inmate has to do is to call out a number and everyone will fall about laughing.