Please MNHQ overturn Posie Parker's ban

[Velella]

That's it really.
Add a post if you agree.

But that's not her style on her videos or posts Miladymilord.

I agree with JoanSummers and would add that smearing someone in this way is a really, really shit thing to do.

I very much doubt Posie was aggressive "behind the scenes"

Why would she do that ? She has never felt the need to hold back in "public"

Poise always seems very straightforward and honest.

Agree. If she'd want to return, that is.

Stating facts about biology is not bigotry and misgendering is not (yet) a crime.

I very much doubt Posie was aggressive "behind the scenes"

MNHQ seem to be saying that she was.

She has never felt the need to hold back in "public"

No, and to some people, that can come across as a little aggressive. Some people may be in danger of being carried away by TRA goading and making the whole issue a tit-for-tat game in the eyes of the moderate middle. What happened to "They go low we go high"?

But that's not her style on her videos or posts Miladymilord

Some of her tweets were quite aggressive.

I'm just saying as an employer myself you have a duty to ensure your staff aren't harassed.

@mnhq are you saying that Posie harassed, abused and insulted your mods, as has been implied?

That isn't what they've said or implied, and even if they have they don't need to answer that tbh.

They already give us a space to discuss this when many wouldn't.

This isn't twitter, Milord.

"They go low we go high" - sort of out the window now - when Mumsnet introduced and enforced the new guidelines (the special trans guidelines that no other group has and that censors women's language) and the trans-activists doubled down on their attacks on us.

Mostly a lurker - totally agree.

OK.

To recap: bring people back- no can do - why were they banned? - they kept debating and asking questions, it was exhausting- but that is your job - but they were also mean - how then? - silence

Sorry, MNHQ, but on this topic you dropped the ball quite a few times, issued contradicting statements, had guidelines that are difficult to follow, ban discussions about breakfast food when people started to make a joke out of it, had interns have access to private information and threaten to use it against people. I could go on. Stop trying to stay neutral and pick a side.

It can't be out of the window or everything else goes with it.

The new guidelines don't seem to be that bad in practice - cis and terf are cracked down on as much as pronouns, if not more so - and the online space is still here. I rather like it and would much rather it remained here.

Stop trying to stay neutral and pick a side

No, I'd rather they stayed neutral.

I'd rather they stayed neutral.

Me too
Especially as there are extremists on both sides of the fence, and extremism is never good.

Neutral is fine.

But Mumsnet provide a feminist board and then ban feminists.

'They provide a feminist board' is the important fact to hang on to. I don't know what's gone on behind the scenes, but we need this space to continue discussing issues affecting all women publicly and continue raising awareness.

Bring back posie.
Oppression of any race/sex/purple people eater is wrong and will cause outrage, unless it's you know just those silly women ! The ones who bear our children, work day and day out to create safe spaces and support each other. This is a forum designed by women for women and therefore should be leading the charge in our defence. Not hiding behind their keyboards protecting those who wish us harm.

Brilliant words from ToeToToe here that encapsulate my thoughts entirely:

@MNHQ you have banned good women. The best women. Because men don't like what they say.

What is happening here is astonishing. Mumsnet has users from across the globe who are no doubt watching this entire argument absolutely gobsmacked. I can’t be the only non-UK resident wondering when this insanity will hit our shores and feeling so sorry for Posie, Vienna and others that they have to fight this ridiculous fight while enduring abuse, threats and now the silencing from MNHQ.

MaryZ is a lovely, lovely poster who has helped countless women, myself included, over the years. To ban her because angry men are angry is disgusting.
And Posie is brilliant and amazing and brave. Banishing her from here is a terrible, terrible decision and not in anyone’s best interest.

You really are on the wrong side of this MNHQ.

Does this sound like someone 'hiding behind their keyboards protecting those who wish us harm'?
www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11980694/Mumsnets-Justine-Roberts-The-police-said-what-the-hoaxers-did-was-a-victimless-crime.html

Being fair about rules and allowing people to use plain English language to discuss issues important to them is being neutral.

That's not the situation here. Trans activists are not being censored on this board from saying 'transwomen are women' despite the fact it is untrue and despite the fact it is intentionally offensive to women by dehumanising us (the statement makes 'woman' conceptual when previously we were material) and by appropriating our language that we use to speak about ourselves and our own history and reality. But women are censored from saying that transwomen are male, for e.g. the rules sat we can't even use the phrase 'males who identify as trans', though that is objectively the truth about what a transwoman is.

So MNHQ has not taken a neutral position. People keep saying, 'oh but they allow us space to talk'. That's bullshit for a couple of reasons.

1. we aren't allowed space to talk on MN without having to walk on eggshells, watching every word we say no matter how factual in case they upset narcissistic males who are not even posting here but are complaining on other platforms. As Posie said, this is absurd.

2. MN host a public space online for people to discuss all sorts of things. They offer it free and they make money out of it. If they want to continue to do that they are not allowed by law to discriminate against women by sex or against any of us because of our political, philosophical or spiritual beliefs. Currently gender critical women are being discriminated against here on both counts. They and others get away with this because it is a difficult area of law and feminists haven't had the money to go around using strategic litigation to force the issue. But the point is, MNHQ has no grounds whatsoever to be banning and censoring women this way - this is not their private home, it is public and it is a business and they have legal obligations wrt to discrimination and the Equality Act.

I think some people just assume because some other online platforms encourage or ignore misogyny and are unfriendly to women that any space, like MN, which allows women on to talk at all without misogynist abuse is therefore a friendly benevolent space. Those people are using the wrong yardstick to measure.

Or this www.theguardian.com/small-business-network/2015/nov/04/justine-roberts-mumsnet-penis-beaker-swat-attack

That was a very articulate post Joan and I don't really have a good answer to it. But I hope the difference between it and hidengosqueak being very unpleasant about the individuals in charge is clear? The latter will put the ordinary woman at home, busy at work, busy raising her kids, worrying about pragmatic matters and with no time to spend getting into every argument on twitter, off.

The impression that i got was that MNHQ are exhausted from the endless reports from TRAs who clearly picked Posie as a target and reported and reported until she was banned. Easier to acquiesce to men throwing their toys out than to put up with the slew of reports over nothing.

Talking of being busy, I have to go unfortunately. See you later.