Girlguiding Issue coming up Good Morning Britain

[WarmWishes]

About to be discussed 7.40am. Suzzanah Reeves & Piers Morgan

all girls have a right to privacy and dignity and you don't see trans girls as girls others do

This is not about how anyone sees anything, but about material reality, Bespin.

I am not surprised that the Woodcraft Folk are ahead of the game. but they like other organsations will be targeted from time to time, as in the example I quoted, or perhaps David Challenor in gymnastics and scouts. People interested in children, are, well, interested in children.

Out of interest who does the DBS and other checks for Girl Guides. Sports clubs do it at club level, but, in my experience at least, with strong encouragement/support from the National Organisation and Sports Development Officers in Local Authorities. And my understanding was that a lot of this was driven by insurance concerns, as well as, obviously, concern for children. If a Challenor gets in and runs amok, and all the safeguarding boxes have not been ticked, someone is responsible.

Someone on Twitter has made a very good point that there are rules (when it comes to social housing at least) regarding boys and girls sharing bedrooms at home

It is also part of housing legislation. In assessing possible overcrowding:
Section 325 of the Housing Act 1985 provides that there is
overcrowding wherever there are so many people in a house that any
two or more of those persons, being ten or more years old, and of
opposite sexes, not being persons living together as husband and wife, must sleep in the same room.
For these purposes, children under ten may be disregarded and a room means any room normally used as either a bedroom or a living room. A kitchen can be a living room provided it is big enough to accommodate a bed.
When interpreting this definition, a local authority looks at how the
sleeping arrangements within the premises could be organised, rather than how they are organised.

Thus, a couple, with two children of opposite sexes and aged ten years or more, with two living rooms (e.g. bedrooms), may not be statutorily overcrowded because the couple could occupy separate rooms, with one each of the children (of the appropriate sex) .
There is no limit on the number of people of the same sex who can live in the same room under section 325 although there may be a
contravention of the space standard"
House of Commons BRIEFING PAPER
Number 1013, 21 September 2018
Overcrowded housing
(England)

It is noteworthy that Shelter's guidelines have substituted the word 'gender' for 'sex' contrary to the legislation which could have implications:
england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/check_if_your_home_is_overcrowded_by_law

LAst Train East

Brilliantly put!

Right about now, is Sophie Walker of WEP congratulating herself for her fence-sitting or quietly regretting that this would be a fabulous opportunity to show leadership, represent women and children, and she's having to pass it up?

Thank you hackmum It's frustrating at times isn't it.

The Good Morning Britain Twitter thread about this was quite heartening in many ways because most people who have given the issues no thought at all can see immediately that it's asking for trouble to allow mixed-sex sleeping accommodation for teenagers, especially when we are all busy pretending that boys can actually BE girls and their girl's penis definitely won't be doing any impregnating.

It is noteworthy that Shelter's guidelines have substituted the word 'gender' for 'sex' contrary to the legislation which could have implications:

And of course Ruth Hunt is a Shelter trustee

I am. talking about children who abuse children not adults, adults do indeed have a number of factors infulanceing there behaviours.

I know it's going back a while, but this is such an odd derailment.

We are not talking about the reasons that abuse occurs. We are talking about safeguarding and dignity of girls.

I question any adult, male or female of any gender that wants to remove safeguarding and dignity of girls.

I completely disagree with Kate Hoey on Brexit.

Brexit-voting women are women!

And of course Ruth Hunt is a Shelter trustee

Elite social closure and incestuous chumocracy has taken over the entire corporate third sector. Withdraw support and re-allocate to small local charities who actually have some idea about the needs of their service users and try to meet them.

And of course Ruth Hunt is a Shelter trustee

If Ruth Hunt's influence has led to Shelter giving innacurate housing advice to those experiencing homelessnes, this deserves challenging.

Furthermore, if one considers the point of the overcrowding legislation relating to single space space for children over 10 years, this is really really concerning.

It exists for profound reasons!

It has Lang

Am amazed by how all theses ppl are interlinked

They all must be rolling in the cash doing all these consultanticies

Local Authorities wont like this, or rather they wont be able to afford for Government housing guidelines to change. A family of four with two adults but two same sex but different gendered teenagers will need a three bedroom property not a two bedroom one. The children then leave home but the couple remains, possibly for decades, paying their bedroom tax.

A financial incentive to encourage your teenage son to wear a dress. Or more likely, a financial incentive to encourage a confused teenager to think they are in the wrong body.

I question any adult, male or female of any gender that wants to remove safeguarding and dignity of girls.

Me too. It should disbar them from having anything to do with it.

all girls have a right to privacy and dignity and you don't see trans girls as girls others do and therefore they are all entitled to this. any girl that did not respect that would be a issue

Blood boiling. Do you know what? Actually any child has a right to dignity. Including a child who is having 'gender issues' - from this child's perspective (and I've experienced this in my profession) they might want to be changing and toileting separately. To the girls or the boys.

And of course Ruth Hunt is a Shelter trustee

Is anyone old enough to remember those punk family trees where you could see who played with who 'oh, look Jon moss used to drum in the damned'.

We need one of those for this mess.

I completely disagree with Kate Hoey on Brexit.
I completely agree with her on this.
It's not unusual to agree with people on some issues and disagree with them on others.

Exactly, except on this issue where there is only one truth and everything else is denied, and considered hate - even science and the dictionary. The more people, of whatever persuasion, who call this out, the better.

from this child's perspective (and I've experienced this in my profession) they might want to be changing and toileting separately. To the girls or the boys.

Yes - and the Mermaids/Gires guidance usually says the trans kids get a choice about it. Unlike the girls...

The point of safeguarding is that adults make the choices, set the boundaries for the children to safeguard any possible outcome no matter how rare.

The point of safeguarding is that adults make the choices, set the boundaries for the children to safeguard any possible outcome no matter how rare.

Correct. Too many organisations - including schools - are accepting the notion that there is no risk involved.

And of course Ruth Hunt is a Shelter trustee

It seems to be the same pool of people hopping around from one Charity running position to another, climbing the greasy pole. They are brought in to 'do a job' from the outside, to make the charity 'compliant'. I think it was Lisa M who said they were all the thickos from Oxbridge, who felt they were entitled to the right sort of job, but couldn't get the big ones in the city etc. In the 80s, it they were all into PR. Big Society has opened a lot of jobs in the Charity Sector, doing running, finance and compliance.

I think that is why GG are stuffed atm. The change has come from outside agencies. It is nothing to do with the Girl Guiding ethos, or any of the people that actually run the units and oversee the areas.

The point of safeguarding is that adults make the choices, set the boundaries for the children to safeguard any possible outcome no matter how rare.

The trouble is that if there is a known loophole, the 'rare outcomes' stop being quite so rare, but the adults in charge do not notice and do not expect it because it is rare. Then the organisation has a big job turning things around, because those with a vested interest in keeping things that way are in positions of power, and they have to fight for control.

Local Authorities wont like this

Needmoresleep

The single sex requirement for children over 10 years is for safeguarding and child protection.

There are serious potential consequences if this principle is eroded for those children at risk /experiencing sexual abuse by parent/sibling,

It also exists to protect dignity and privacy.

Local Authorities wont like this, or rather they wont be able to afford for Government housing guidelines to change. A family of four with two adults but two same sex but different gendered teenagers will need a three bedroom property not a two bedroom one. The children then leave home but the couple remains, possibly for decades, paying their bedroom tax.

I have a very large family. If I needed to be housed - what on earth would happen in a few years, if I said “all of my children over the age of 10 identify as a different one of the 100 (?) genders”?

It is such a bad message to send to young girls that if a male says he wants, he needs, he feels then she isn't even allowed to acknowledge what's happening never mind object or question.

This needs repeating. Again and a-fucking- gain.