Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

[AgnesBadenPowell]

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/34139ed0-bea5-11e8-8d21-451ec1df6b83

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

This saddens me so much.

And the reality on the ground is that awareness of these policies amongst leaders is very very low. We are sleepwalking into a shit storm and GGUK should have our backs.

The fact that they don’t appear to have is both shocking and demoralising,

As is the thought that if they link this post with my membership number they might expel me too

Horrendous news.
Won't anyone think of the girls any more? Seems GGUK will not.

Girls, and even women, thrive in female-only environments.

Shows how anti-female the 'inclusive' policy is.

I am so sad about this.

You fought hard and well, Agnes.

If there's any way to take this further and there is anything we can do to help, please ask.

Working
Yes, Yes, that’s me too!
Sad times.

What can we do? I’m a former guide and brownie and my nana was a guide in the 1930s and my mum in the 1960s.

I won’t be sending my daughter.

Could we get an open letter of support for leaders who question the policy published somewhere?

Although I feel incredibly sad for the OP and her colleague, the one bright side of this is that it really brings what is going on to public attention. Up to now it's been hidden away on the inside of the newspapers, but I think this has the potential to really wake people up to the threat to safeguarding. The Mail, I'm sure, will want to get its teeth into this. Parents are going to be absolutely furious when they find out what's happening. The Girl Guides have scored a massive own goal.

True Hackmum

Agnes please do not go quietly! We have your back.

"girlish", though...

Would it be feasible for you to continue running your unit as an independent? Effectively start a breakaway organisation?

According to Stephen Whittle on an previous MN thread this isn't and issue Clare. All GG leaders can just hand out condoms.

Girls won't want to go or be allowed by their parents

Who will volunteer? Concerned women or men who self IF and just fancy the outfit?

Men who, if things go their way, can erase their past activities as a 'man' so DRB checks are completely invalid.

So if a prospective manager Googled their 'man name' to find local newspaper reports of, say, flashing, violence, rape... Then this will probably a criminal act then?

I see they are looking for a new chief exec. Hmmmmm.

Bets are on!
Woman - 10/1
Man - evens
God knows what -??

I am a gc lurker. Very concerned about self id etc but scared to speak out. This has pushed me over the edge. I will be approaching my daughters unit about this policy this week.

I was looking for something else, but found this:

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2750064/Don-t-turn-Girl-Guides-little-socialists-implores-SARAH-VINE.html

Prescient.

GG were advised by GIRES.

I hm think that the cadets will be getting busy. Until boys start demanding the girls uniforms and toilets.

But then from what I have read of boys who are on the track, they know that they are actually girls because the like pink fluffy stuff and dresses and sparkles (not marching, crawling through mud and climbing ropes) do maybe it wont be an issue.

I remember a friend of my sister's who is gay (very camp) the absolute horror of when he realised that he was going to have to do his national service. Not the activities - but the uniform boots. "I can't possibly wear those clunky ugly things!

Very worrying. I can't believe people don't care about this.

It's probably not on a lot of people's radar. Does this mean that brownies are in the same boat too?

Yes - Girl Guiding UK covers Rainbows, Brownies, Guides, the Senior Section and Rangers.

Funny how woke inclusiveness always seems to go along with sexism

I think this is a very important point about sexism and gender stereotyping. A number of prominent young and older transwomen do appear to be publicly performing a hyper-stereotyped version of femininity which is personal to them, and certainly not innate.

I think it's regressive for Girl Guides to think this is of benefit to girls and women.

Also given what LemonJello said about the legal position of EA, I would support a legal challenge.

Think the funding question is an interesting one

Thank you Agnes and Helen for your vitally important work . You have made this safeguarding catastrophe public so that parents can be warned and you have ensured public and media interest in the matter so that if god forbid girls are harmed there will be accountability.

So who is giving Guides the incorrect legal advice

Gendered Intelligence (one of the main pushers of gender ideology along with GIRES and Mermaids)

I would also have thought that their actions would invalidate any liability insurance they have, as they are not acting with due care and attention.

so if the roulette ball does land on the daughter of someone litigious, I would expect girl guides will be on their own

This is the link I was looking for:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3250175-Girl-Guides-Panel-discussion-at-Speakers-house-woman-male-woman-male-male-male

in case any journalists are using MN to search for material.

And a further link

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/the-state-has-failed-karen-whites-victims/