Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

[AgnesBadenPowell]

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/34139ed0-bea5-11e8-8d21-451ec1df6b83

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

[2BthatUnnoticed]

(To be clear, the Enlightened White People are those insisting the runners are “c*s”, ignoring all the Chinese people who think they are male).

[2BthatUnnoticed]

This is just a note of support for Helen Watts, who is being abused for supporting women’s sport (not on Twitter so couldn’t post there).

If anyone who sees this is friends with Helen, please let her know her courage is inspiring And also that the people accusing her of racism are wrong (I’m not white, if it matters).

It has primarily been Chinese people saying those runners are male. This was on Weibo first, it crossed to Twitter purely because of that Chinese reaction.

Racism is ignoring and talking over 1.4 billion Chinese people because you, An Enlightened White Person, know better.

Racism is thinking all Chinese people (or those in any group) “look the same...” in this case, to the extent that Chinese male and female people are indistinguishable (!?).

The abuse women get on Twitter is awful. to Helen and everyone standing up for girls and women.

[Billy21]

I have been pondering on their use of cis and trans girls. Presumably in future application forms will have a tick box for the parents to identify their child's category. Or, if it is meant to be kept a secret, will the parent whisper 'cis' or 'trans' to the Leader at the first meeting?

[Carrrotsandcauliflower]

It has made me think about the future. I think there needs to be more effort and energy and schooling poured into girls, and boys also- to say you are entitled to sex segregated spaces. You are entitled to privacy. It’s something I go over at home now whenever the opportunity pops up.

[Carrrotsandcauliflower]

I replied with a very short shrift. I also told them that I take great exception to the use of the label Cis- and that I identify as a Biological Woman, because that’s what I am, and I will be known by no other term. ( I’m happily speaking for my daughter there too.) sad thing- she came out of brownies this week and said-“ I love brownies mum- because I don’t have any sisters, so it’s good for me to be with all the girls.” It’s choked me a bit. I haven’t told her she won’t be going to Guides, because they think girls have penises yet.

[doublethink]

Anyone else heard back? Are people also calling their safeguarding team?

[MipMipMip]

Love it!

[Molokonono]

From twitter this evening

[ChattyLion]

I notice Stonewall is offerIng free places for schools on their pilot ‘challenging gender stereotyping courses. ‘

How does that fit in with a trans ideology which puts reinforcing gender stereotyping above- natural puberty, natural fertility, bodily integrity, horrible medical and surgical side effects, the child’s right to an open future, becoming a medical patient probably for the rest of your life, no support for de transitioned people ...

I’m not making it up: www.stonewall.org.uk/get-involved/get-involved-education/challenging-gender-stereotypes

[ThatDoctorEM]

You all give me hope.
Sometimes I come on Mumsnet because, selfishly, I need it - It is like a shot of adrenaline.
Thank you!

[ahagwearsapointybonnet]

Phew. FINALLY got round to emailing GG with my thoughts on the policy. They will probably just tell me to go forth and multiply, but at least I've tried... Though having just seen the latest posts above, I wish I had also mentioned something about "cis", but saw that too late, so never mind.

[ShcfG]

Girlguiding "..committed to ensuring that girls and young women are given a space to challenge gender stereotypes.

we welcome both cis and trans girls"

That is apeshit and very worrying. Seriously, Girlguiding stand by that statement?!

[FloralBunting]

Define 'girl' as anyone who feels like one, based on a stereotypical understanding of what a 'girl' is or feels like.

If that's challenging gender stereotypes, what exactly is conforming to them!??

[hiveofmumsandvillainy]

Challenge gender stereotypes - are they barking fucking mad?!

[hiveofmumsandvillainy]

Cis girl . Fuck off.
How the hell am I going to explain to my seven year old that I can't trust GG to keep her safe.

[averylongtimeago]

A girl is anyone who thinks they are a girl, obviously.

[Popchyk]

How exactly are they defining girls?

What is a girl?

[rightreckoner]

You call my girl a Cis girl and then think I’m going to let her join your organisation ? You must be fucking joking.

She’s a girl. Girl is enough. How dare you?

[AngryAttackKittens]

Well, many people are not assured. What now?

[VickyEadie]

Please be assured that Girlguiding is still a girls only organisation. We have always been a girls only organisation and are committed to ensuring that girls and young women are given a space to challenge gender stereotypes.

we welcome both cis and trans girls

"Challenge gender stereotypes" - now, that's taking the piss on a *massive8 scale, that is.

[Knicknackpaddyflak]

I don't know why the government are even bothering with a consultation, it's too late isn't it? Females have been colonised and are now the borg.

Female, girl, woman, now means absolutely fuck all. I honestly struggle to believe this is really happening and our fucking government are just making vague noises and watching.

[PipGoesPop]

Patronising. Evasive. Disgraceful.

[Carrrotsandcauliflower]

Hi-
I got this response from Girl Guides today. I had emailed them some time ago to ask about their rediculous safeguarding- my daughter was on the waiting list for a place post brownies.

Thank you for your email that has been passed to us by Girlguiding (I’ve taken this bit out.)

Please be assured that Girlguiding is still a girls only organisation. We have always been a girls only organisation and are committed to ensuring that girls and young women are given a space to challenge gender stereotypes.

In line with our values of inclusion, we welcome both cis and trans girls and young women. We are for all girls, from all walks of life and we will continue to open our doors to anyone based on that principle.


I hope that this answers you query and thank you again for contacting us.

Best wishes,

The Complaints Team
Girlguiding

They say nothing about trans boys. I just found the whole letter massively annoying.
“Please be assured..” that we are going to talk absolute crap at you now.

[NoSquirrels]

So the GG argument is that they are "positively discriminating" for trans people, and allowing boys who think they are girls to be treated differently to boys who think they are boys?

I think the Equality Act 2010 is a load of old bollocks, honestly. It's confused and confusing.

Who or what in law is a woman or a man? That's what I'd like to know, honestly. No one seems able to answer.

[SwiftNC]

Don't know where you've got 5 years from loops, this policy change came in Jan 2017, and there was objection and discussion at the time. There was no consultation with any stakeholders - not parents, not leaders, not girls. This is a top down policy imposition that no one asked for apart from trans lobbyists. Sex based exemptions under the EA2010 cover exactly the set up GG had for 107 years before male children were allowed to join on the basis of claiming they were girls.