Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

[AgnesBadenPowell]

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/34139ed0-bea5-11e8-8d21-451ec1df6b83

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

[ChattyLion]

Will GG UK now be honest and change their name, logo and legal charitable aims to ‘Femininity-Performing Guiding UK’?

[LangCleg]

According to Stephen Whittle on an previous MN thread this isn't and issue Clare. All GG leaders can just hand out condoms.

He also mentioned emergency contraception if it was er... after the event, as it were.

Stephen Whittle opened a lot of eyes around here.

[arranfan]

prospective manager Googled their 'man name' to find local newspaper reports of, say, flashing, violence, rape... Then this will probably a criminal act then?

I don't know but the right to be forgotten by Google does extend to dead names for surprising people and it's not unthinkable it might be extended further to incorporate dead names associated with offences.

[OldCrone]

And why is the risk of young teen pregnancy also not considered
One response I saw to this question was that 'trans girls' were not boys so this wouldn't happen. I'm not sure if they thought the child had actually changed sex, or if they were assuming that all 'trans girls' were gay boys.

[speakingwoman]

Agnes, I hope you take this further. Do you have representation yet?

[HawkeyeInConfusion]

I am sorry to hear that this has happened to you and your colleague Agnes. The actions of GGUK are a disgrace.

You, Agnes, are a shining example of what a leader for Guiding should be. Looking out for the wellbeing of the girls in your care and brave enough to stand up and be counted when you feel their safety is under threat. You are an inspiration to us all.

I hope that when, and if, this nightmare passes your name goes into Guiding history as an example of bravery and integrity all future leaders should aspire to.

Shame on you GGUK. Shame on you.

[boatyardblues]

I don't know but the right to be forgotten by Google does extend to dead names for surprising people and it's not unthinkable it might be extended further to incorporate dead names associated with offences.

Try finding any original reporting of or information about Martin Ponting’s original offences (raped minor girls) via Google. Go on... (You’ll only find coverage of the uproar when “Jessica” was moved to a women’s prison.)

[AsAProfessionalFekko]

Nothing is every deleted (hahaha) but if you found out that the new girl in tour office was actally a rapist with a violent history then what could you do? Fuck all I suspect.

[Needmoresleep]

Langcleg, I have just worked out why this, and the British Gymnastics thread have me so cross.

Other topics like the bloke in a dress getting a women's achievement award, minimise women's achievements. And I understand why other issues have left lesbians feeling they are being erased. But the GG and BG policies are worse as they completely ignore the importance of parenting and the fundemental duty of any parent to protect their children.

Why was the bloke in a pink dress, who just won a women's achievement award, invited to consult on GG policy (my link up thread)? Just why? At minimum he was busy carving out a city career whilst his wife raised his children, including the taxiing to after school activities. Almost certainly his wife would have been a better consultee. I would have been a better consultee. Indeed most of us would have been better consultees. And lots and lots of people within the GG organisation would have been better than us all.

But motherhood, or experience of working/volunteering with children and teenagers, count for nothing. Oh to be a member of the new establishment.

[Molokonono]

www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/resources/transgender-prisoners

[LangCleg]

One response I saw to this question was that 'trans girls' were not boys so this wouldn't happen.

Teenage girls in the 1950s used to cry and say But he said I couldn't get pregnant if we did it standing up. In the 2020s, they'll be crying and saying But I thought I couldn't pregnant if we both identify as lesbians.

It's ludicrous.

[ChilliJamandAvocado]

The new establishment. Exactly the same as the old establishment. Just with prettier frocks

[HawkeyeInConfusion]

I agree needmoresleep.

And what worries me even more is that it is reasonable to assume that David Challenor (the rapist paedophile with a history as a Scout leader and gymnastics coach) quite probably had an input into those policies via Aimee Challenor and the Stonewall Trans Advisory Board.

[LangCleg]

But the GG and BG policies are worse as they completely ignore the importance of parenting and the fundemental duty of any parent to protect their children.

And not only socially and morally, but legally as well. These policies (and the various trans lobby tool kits going into schools) undermine the ability of parents to fulfil their legal responsibilities under the Children Act.

[carceralfeminist]

This is a fucking travesty. What in the hell are GG thinking?

[concretesieve]

Agnes I've been following your threads here and I'm appalled by this update. MNers have done wonderful work on this issue and yours has been an exemplary contribution.

Your commitment to your girls shines through and your clear, courteous but determined stance is a model for any campaign.

I'm so sorry this has happened to you.

[Numbkinnuts]

So basically you've raised a safeguarding concern and have been dismissed for it.

The FB group issue is a red herring and would not warrant dismissal in any case.

Is there a right of appeal for this dismissal ?

I applaud you for your actions.

[Stuffofawesome]

Agnes you are amazing and strong, Thank you for standing up for girls. It is a very sorry state of affairs but you have consistently done the right thing.

I really hope the stress of this situation is manageable for you.

Thanks also to the other leaders like you.

[PencilsInSpace]

This is fucking outrageous.

If you were paid staff you'd be protected under whistleblowing law but as you are volunteers you're not protected.

What can we do to help?

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

it is reasonable to assume that David Challenor (the rapist paedophile with a history as a Scout leader and gymnastics coach) quite probably had an input into those policies via Aimee Challenor and the Stonewall Trans Advisory Board.

Ye gods! You are probably right @Hawkeye!

Could someone on twitter alert a DM journo to this possibilty, perhaps?

[Nightmanagerfan]

I’m so sorry. I signed the letter to the Times too as an ex-guide. There’s no way any girl of mine will be attending any GG activities.

The comments under the article are overwhelmingly supportive of the leaders.

In all this there’s the huge amount of money behind the trans lobby for campaigning and legal fees, so unfair against ordinary people who just want to send their teenage girls to camp without them sharing a tent with someone with a penis.

[littlbrowndog]

Sorry Agnes. This i# just awful
You and the other leaders are th3 ones who are brave and stunning
Not th3 pseudo bunch of guys or the cowards in you4 organisation who are to cowardly to stand up to trans activisiam

What is wrong with these cowards they have the power to say NO NO

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

I signed the Times letter as well. I have since given up Guiding because of this nonsense.

This is outrageous - thank you for standing up for the girls.

[Imnobody4]

Sorry haven't read the whole thread - doesn't this The reasons given for my expulsion were breaching the code of conduct and breaching social media policy. GGHQ is disingenuously trying to distance itself away from the reasons why I spoke publicly. It wasn't public for some time and many other women also raised concerns privately come under whistleblowing?