Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

[AgnesBadenPowell]

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/34139ed0-bea5-11e8-8d21-451ec1df6b83

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

[Redkeyboard]

When letting males sleep next to teenage girls without their parents knowledge leads to the inevitable, Girl Guides are going to get sued to fuck. Given they have been expelling leaders like you Agnes who raise the obvious safeguarding concerns they won't have a leg to stand on.

Agnes you have always been clear that you want to make sure everyone in your care feels and is safe and included. Guides are idiots to do this. I would 100% trust kids to your care. I would 100% not trust kids to Girl Guiding's care at the moment.

Thank you so much for standing up and saying what needs to be said. You are amazing.

[UrsulaPandress]

Utter, utter bastards.

I am so angry on your behalf.

My dd has gone through guides. It is the one place where now at the age of 18 I see photos of her sans makeup.

[Igneococcus]

Share token for the Times article:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/girl-guide-leaders-expelled-for-questioning-trans-policy-550x7m55r?shareToken=65c8d021613171819f6979c0ab3d8902

[Almahart]

This is like a dystopian nightmare. What the fuck is happening? I am completely horrified

[Jenijena]

the daily mail can sod off, you’re not quoting me I do not understand what GGHQ’s intentions can possibly be in this...

They have actively defined their organisation as a safe, empowering space for females... and have then enacted a policy that will make at least some of its members feel the opposite of being safe and empowered and yet they don’t respond to these comments in any meaningful way.

They are desperate for volunteers, but apparently only those who shut up and don’t question (so much for feminism). Whilst being so bleeding heart liberal on the other side that anyone who wears a skirt is welcome.

They stalk a private fb group to look for members who transgress their random ‘rules’ (so much for ‘A Guide is to be Trusted’).

Thank you for what you and the other leader (who I know reads this) have contributed to GG. As a volunteer on the scouting side, I know just how much effort goes into running these sorts of organisations, and can appreciate the absolute pile of shit that other volunteers will have to go through now as well.

If GGUK breaks down as a result of this, they really only gave theirselves to blame.

(And for what it’s worth, should the Scout Association start similar bonkers attitudes and start spying on people’s social media and it wouldn’t take long to identify me, I have no problem with trans people on an individual basis, know and accept as part of a wider friendship group (ie friends and siblings of friends, rather than immediate circle). But I would not put any young person in a situation where they feel uncomfortable about who they share facilities with, and I would especially never do this without talking to their parents).

[MinecraftHolmes]

Excuse me while I email my local rainbow unit to remove DD from the waiting list.

I am so angry about this.

[Tellin]

Girl Guides, where boys' needs come first.

Thank you Agnes for standing up. I'm sorry it's come to this.

Sad as it is, it's an excellent example of how the Equality Act is now rendered meaningless. You are legally allowed to exclude trans people from single sex services (provided you have good reason) but they're not willing to. I hope this makes people realise that self ID will be the end of it all for women. The idiots claiming it will be ok because of the EA have got it very wrong.

[vicviking]

Sorry to hear this Agnes.

Agree with pp. If you set up a crowdfunder I would donate.

[CrackpotsArePots]

Jen

The Mail and Mail and Sunday are reporting on women's concerns about trans rights. The Guardian and the BBC (much as it pains me to say this)
are not

[CrackpotsArePots]

Sad as it is, it's an excellent example of how the Equality Act is now rendered meaningless. You are legally allowed to exclude trans people from single sex services (provided you have good reason) but they're not willing to. I hope this makes people realise that self ID will be the end of it all for women. The idiots claiming it will be ok because of the EA have got it very wrong


Yes, tellin

[qumquat]

So sorry to hear this Agnes. What a mess

[Greenfliesarenice]

How depressing. That's the end of Girl Guides, a snake eating it's own tail.

[Dermymc]

This is thoroughly depressing and awful news. Agnes you tried your best and sadly some "woke" people have fought back. Keep fighting, keep telling your story and hopefully the court of public opinion will come onside.

[boatyardblues]

I am very sorry to hear this Agnes, but thank you for fighting for girls in the movement to be properly safeguarded and an environment where they can flourish. I think Girl Guiding had badly misjudged this & I think there will be a significant backlash from GG parents & the public.

[HandsOffMyRights]

So sorry Agnes and thank you to you and those other leaders who've been thrown under the bus.

If you start a Crowdfunder I'll give.

[ocelot41]

Can someone please tell me what the safeguarding rules actually are? Maybe I am looking in the wrong place but I can't see much detail on the 'Safe Space' site. I had thought that leaders slept elsewhere and that it was a general rule that no leader was ever alone with a child/children whether in the showers/loos or not. At least, that's how it is at cubs/brownies. I would like some facts in order to make a judgement about the level of safeguarding risk. Does anyone know the nitty gritty of the policies in place?

[meditrina]

Men who identify as men have been staff and volunteers for simply ages. I really don't see there is any real change for the adults.

Are there really such numbers of predatory children that there is anything other than anti-trans prejudice here?

I expect Brownies and Guides to,be adequately supervised, such that all forms of inappropriate behaviour are dealt with, especially drugs and fags (way more common and very harmful) and bullying/coercion. If you have systems which can prevent/detecthe those, you have a good level of supervision in place already.

Why shouidn't someone living as a girl take part in girlish activities? Some people are vocally anti. But that's not the only possible oright opinion. (MN isn't RL, and in matters political has been a good indicator of exactly the opposite of majority RL opinion for at least a decade)

[UrsulaPandress]

Girlish activities?

Wtf are you talking about?

[Now100]

I am properly shocked by this. You were merely challenging their new policy.

Compare this to the way male clergy who couldn't accept female clergy were treated, they were allowed to just keep working with men.

Most worryingly this is an absolute dream situation for abusers.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

It is not about "predatory children" FFS.

It's about girls being told that a boy is a girl.
It's about girls not being allowed any spaces of their own
It's about not being able to talk about periods because that might be exclusionary
It's about girls being told their boundaries don't matter
It's about teenage boys sharing with teenage girls
It's about girls being managed out if they identify as boys

[boatyardblues]

They are mixing sleeping accommodation without telling parents or the other girls beforehand. This has happened to an aquaintance’s daughter on a recent Guide camp (teens).

[Tellin]

So meditrina you're saying there's no need ever to segregate children by sex? We've got all the safeguarding wrong for all these years? Because that's what your argument amounts to.

No one is saying trans children are predatory.

[CrackpotsArePots]

men who identify as men - you mean men, then...

People with a penis who identify as women are, under GG rules treated as if they were women. Therefore, allowed to interact with girls, as if they were women. Can you see any problem with that? Do you feel it might be exploited by predatory men?

Do you think women volunteers and leaders should be expected to sleep alongside people with a penis? And not be allowed to voice concerns about that?

Do you think girls who identify as boys should be invited to leave GGs (that is what their policy states)?

Do you know that GG goes up to teenage years?

[howlsmovingcastle84]

What the hell is a girlish activity?? Have you ever been to a girl guiding session?
In terms of sleepovers-girls sleep in small groups in tents. We leaders (former leader here) sleep in our tents. Do you honestly see no issue with teenage boys and teenage girls sharing a tent with the girls parent having no knowledge of this?

[MinecraftHolmes]

Males have never been allowed to be unit leaders until this. It was a very clear and important distinction that GGUK made.