Women on the left are responsible for austerity

[CarrotyO]

I've heard it said that women on the left actually support and are therefore in some way responsible for austerity. This is because both Labour and the Tories support austerity. Therefore any woman who supports Labour, or the Left in general, also knowingly and consciously supports austerity and are therefore also responsible for the 1000s of deaths of disabled people caused by austerity. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Pile of shite. Next question.

I think the way the debate has been framed in the media for the past 8 years is the most important thing. If you tell people they have a choice, but those choices must fall between very narrow perameters then of course most people will choose what they see as the lesser of two evils. Its not their fault - they're dealing with their own lives not running the country or a political party of their own.

Women are responsible for all that's gone wrong with the world. Obviously.

Well, David Cameron and the press worked very hard to create a seeming consensus across the parties that austerity was necessary. It was only the Corbyn shift that partially broke that consensus.

But the Left is not in power, the Right is in power, it is committed to austerity and implementing it. Why blame the Left?

But even then, why single out women to blame?

If you tell people they have a choice, but those choices must fall between very narrow perameters then of course most people will choose what they see as the lesser of two evils

Yes very important point. There are also a lot of good things which have come out of political organising on the left, such as the equal pay act, anti discrimination legislation, pro-abortion legislation etc etc. So I can see why women would look to organise there?

Does not voting against the Tories' welfare cuts count? Or was it just the responsible thing to do?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/these-are-the-184-labour-mps-who-didn-t-vote-against-the-tories-welfare-bill-10404831.html

Those are Labour MPs. My question was quite specifically about women who are on the left and who support Labour. Do you think they consciously support Austerity and are therefore also in some way responsible for the deaths of disabled people due to welfare cuts?

Are you saying female Labour MPs are not women on the left who support Labour? Or are you saying women on the left who support Labour MPs who support welfare cuts don't support welfare cuts?

I think, and I’ll come back in the morning to read properly, that you’re misrepresenting what Lisa Muggeridge said there.
Just a smidge.

I'm talking about women who organise on the left and who support Labour. It's not that complicated.

Nah

Your answer is quite unclear deepwatersolo. I feel like you are alluding to the fact that you agree with my OP, but are just kind of hinting at it, instead of just saying so.

There was no bloody consensus about austerity, that's for sure. Plenty of people were warning against it. I don't understand the argument about it's being women's fault either. Is that me being dim or the argument being fatuous?

Sweety, sweety, do you need a reading luist. Lets start with the Labour manifesto shall we? Upheld welfare cuts even AFTER they were undeliverable. Dont you think thats odd after eight years of austerity? You dont think its odd that a culture who ONLY exist to derail discussion into the word left havent noticed the systems impacted by austerity? You dont think its odd that a centrist dads movement of elite educated posh boys were the spokespeople for austerity that killed a hundred thousand people and those people were nowhere to be seen and noone has yet discussed the unbroken consensus on welfare reform?

The left are a delusion in their own heads. You cant identify as someones representation any more than you can identify as their sex, and the left abused women so that they could identify as our representation openly. Which you saw. But you identify as our representation and you identify as doing something even though you would have to be delusional to imagine you could perceive anything ut perfect unbroken consensus on austerity. Now do you want me to list the economics departments, social policy departments, the academic disciplines at the core of this or are you just having a tantrum because someone pointed out that putting women and kids at risk of violence to make you feel pure is a bit psychopathic? By the way., It is.

We wouldnt need to do what we are doing to get recognition of safeguarding if the left had opposed austerity. We wouldnt need to deal with system failure in our welfare system and local authorities.
Identifying as something and it being true are not the same and your behaviour to me because I suggested your delusional identity is leading you to behave abusively rather demonstrates my point rather than refutes it. You have issues. The word left seems to be at the root. Its leading you to bizarre behaviour.

The left go on about the neo liberal consensus. THats real. Its unbroken, you can see local authorities and welfare reform at the heart of it. Women are breaking it because we are not being derailed into left right tribal nonsense.
Unfortunately what you also did when you actively prevented women challenging austerity, actively facilitated it, is because of your false identity you decided to start abusing jewish people., I suppose a big jewish conspiracy is easier than saying a bunch of privately educated posh boys just actively facilitated austerity by abusing women, and thats what the Labour left is. Get over yourself, get a therapist and stop behaving like this to protect your delusional left identity.

What? No I was asking if women who support Labour and who organise on the left are responsible for austerity.

You want to tell people you identify with the people presenting a direct risk of fascism, you go ahead. You do not exploit those of us who lived with austerity and we abused by your comrades for discussing it because you are delusional. The word left is just a delusion which makes you the type of person who will abuse on demand to hold up toxic consensus. Thats all it is. It doesnt exist outside your head which is why you have to abse people to maintain it. Sorry dude, there is no conceivable way the left could have opposed austerity subject to absolute political consensys by abusing women and demanding they didnt discuss it. You'd have to be mad to think that possible, or just have the word left in your identity.

I'm talking about women who organise on the left and who support Labour. It's not that complicated.

Indeed, it is not. If those women supported Labour while Labour supported austerity, then the answer is obvious. As far as I understand Lisa talks about only a few very specific women in WPUK who specifically supported Labour's collusion in maintaining austerity.

I guess, we'll have to hear from Lisa who that was and what they did, but your apparent working assumption that women on the Left who support Labour (which has colluded in maintaining austerity as a matter of public record, as my link shows) are summarily incapable of supporting the maintainance of austerity, if only because their class privilege makes them blind to the issue (in analogy to said Labour MPs), strikes me as naive.

Look "dude", I don't organise on the left. I am not asking about myself. I am an anarcho-primative radical feminist who is opposed to industrial capitalism and agriculture. I do not "identify" with the left. I am asking you about women who organise on the left and who support labour and what you think they support and are responsible for.

This is just a thread to annoy Lisa Muggeridge because she's been posting on the boards over the last couple of days, amirite?

Her assertion is, as I understand it, roughly as follows: during the coalition government and Ed Miliband's leadership of Labour, the party felt that the public was behind the idea that some austerity following the financial crash and the level of public debt.

So they went for an austerity-lite line in order to triangulate. So Labour at that time was saying some cuts are ok but we're not as mean as the evil Tories. Lisa's problem is that she feels the cuts that were ok all fell on women and had the effect of rolling back equality (interplay between legal aid, DV and the Children Act as one example).

So for Lisa, Labour would have been pretty much as bad for women as the Tories actually were.

Her concomitant assertion is that any woman pointing this out was demonised and attacked by Labour activists, especially those proclaiming themselves on the left of the party. This has left Lisa with a very strong belief that Labour left activism is toxic. Women now branded TERF by Labour left activism may well have sympathy for this view.

HTH for anyone wondering what on earth this thread is all about.

Ah, Lisa posted while I was typing. Never mind!

There was a consensus in Labour, our trade unions, local authorities, think tanks, academic disciplines, and I just attended the LSE and its still firmly in place there so I am confused as to where this opposition was. I recall the family court hearing where I had to explain that I hadnt understood when accepting invitations from the Guardian and Oxford University and the Labour Party ad my trade unions that left wing activists would put my five year old at risk of violence for discussing political consensus on austerity. Yes there was consensyus. Local Authority bidgets were agreed pre election 2010, we all knew where the axe would fall and welfare reform received no oppostion and Universal credit is now causing system collapse. Sorry to burst bubbles. Its quite effective having a political culture who identify as good and identify as opposing something when they are upholding it. They will fully harm women to uphold it, they will put kids at risk and feel its a virtue. As we have seen with the bollocks spouted by @carrotyo

Thanks LangCleg that does help. I wasn't aware that activists attacked women for opposing austerity. I was under the impression that women (and men) have been organising against austerity since it was first imposed. They have been doing in my city in any case, and I've been to a few rallies etc myself so not sure what she is referring to to be honest. Do you have any specific examples?

Unless carroty is right. Its reasonable to refuse to discuss political consensus on policy that killed 100k people, and the way its still in place and upheld, because it might injure Carrotyo's identity to discuss those people and the role of the political culture carrotyo identifies with. Priorities eh? I'll remember in future. Dead people is a fair price to pay for an intact false and delusional political identity.

Carryto you appear to have major issues. You said you identified as the word left and you started this now you seem fucking upset. I am upset. You are a bully and it is people like you and your delusional identity that were let rip on women in the last eight years. It was people like you who ejected people from anti-cuts meetigs because they didnt meet left wing urity standards, it was people like you who targeted me because I knew these policies ad systems. You need to take responsibility and learn to manage your identity and your beahviour. I am not interested in assisting you in managing either. You are clearly dangerous.

I don’t normally engage with this kind of thread, but nobody is responsible for something unless they had the power to set and implement the policy.

Labour haven’t had a sniff at power since 2010.

As it seems impossible for a woman to ever lead the Labour party, blaming women for a policy that they neither had the position nor the power to enact seems utterly far-fetched!