Women on the left are responsible for austerity

[CarrotyO]

I've heard it said that women on the left actually support and are therefore in some way responsible for austerity. This is because both Labour and the Tories support austerity. Therefore any woman who supports Labour, or the Left in general, also knowingly and consciously supports austerity and are therefore also responsible for the 1000s of deaths of disabled people caused by austerity. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Carrotyo, targeting Posie Parker and putting her kids at risk IS purity politics. You have demonstrated EVERYTHING I said. EVERYTHING. Yet thought you were refuting. Thats the power of a false identity. It will make you do that. Always ask yourself , is this real? Left is a word you made part of your identity, not relevant to me outside that word being the one that stopped me discussing policies killing people...

Agriculture has been around for less than 10k years. Humans have lived for 200k years. We don't need agriculture. Agriculture is inherently destructive, it depletes the soil, it destroys the landbase. It means that other life forms can't live there as it's solely used for producing food for humans. Agriculture is an authoritarean and human supremacist system. It is destroying our planet. All your food is grown with chemicals, you think that's healthy?

The only reason this planet maintains billion people is agriculture. And even agriculture wouldn't be enough without nitrogen fertilizers. Now you can be against that, but then you'll have to be for austerity on a whole new level, an austerity designed to 'cull the herd' by billions of people. Starving to death is less healthy than those fertilizers and herbicides, you know.

But yeah, if you want to end human supremacy by ending humanity in order to give cockroaches a shot... why would you even oppose austerity?

CarrotyO

We see you. And we see what idiots like you have done to the Labour Party, you’ve made it unelectable, and the many women here who worked tirelessly at grassroots level supporting the party for years and years, (mostly in voluntary capacities), are fucking furious at the shambles it has become.

You may think you can turn women against each other, that will be your undoing.

Agriculture has been around for less than 10k years. Humans have lived for 200k years.

How many humans have lived in those hudreds of thousands of years before the advent of agriculture? And how many can Earth sustain in the absence of agriculture. Somehow, all those extreme ideologies correlate with an inability to do Maths.

Omg another person who is imagining things about me. What have I done to the labour party exactly? I haven't been NEAR the labour party.

I dont know a single working class woman who wants to spend all fucking day foraging for nuts and berries. We've got more important things to worry about.

Agriculture and industrial capitalism are unsustainable. Humans lived in tandem with the natural world for 200k years, hunting and gathering. Very few of those cultures still exist as unfortunately they have been systematically wiped out.

What have I done to the Labour Party exactly? I haven't been NEAR the labour party

So why do you care about what a bunch of random women on the internet think about Labour??

It is interesting how adopting a false identity will make people behave I think. You see it with proper narcissists and TRAs and the word left. The problem is attachment. When identity is attached to something real you dont need to do that but when its constructed you do. You need objects to abuse that you project dysfunction onto(hence the mob rule and purity politics) so you can continue to behave that way. I had never seen it on an institutional scale till I met the left.

This is where I met the Labour left. idgeofreason.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/the-new-left-and-progressive-movement-exploit/ I do wish I hadnt been given an opportunity to record HOW they maintained consensus on aysterity and they had been able to lend their(OUR) considerable trade union and media resources to something outside abusing us. Still we ave a movement now of women everywhere. That would ALWAYS have happened because of the nature of the situation we are in. Its quite heartwarming to know that we can bypass this delusional identity. Its just a shame about the behavior of the randoms who maintain the word left as part of their identity. Oh well.

Agriculture and industrial capitalism are unsustainable. Humans lived in tandem with the natural world for 200k years, hunting and gathering. Very few of those cultures still exist as unfortunately they have been systematically wiped out.

But they lived at lower numbers. What you propose is not just the collapse of industrial civilization (which would already starve billions) but of any civilization. I mean, as your goal is the end of human civilization, anyway, why not just plough on with agriculture and industrial capitalism? The end result should be the same.

Plus: Any consideration for other species is misplaced. If it is not about conserving the planet for humanity, it really does not matter, how we leave it behind. One of the species will take over and adapt to pretty much any condition.

Anyway this talk about agriculture is a derail, I mentioned it only to point out that I'm not strongly identified with Labour. As you can see it doesn't come near to aligning with my politics. I mentioned it because Lisa kept saying that I identify with Labour and with the left etc.

So why do you care about what a bunch of random women on the internet think about Labour??

I'm interested in politics even though I see its limitations. I understand the necessity of fighting against austerity and for fighting for our rights in this culture, even though the entire culture is destructive to this planet (and therefore ourselves).

According to Terry Pratchett it's roaches.

What you propose is not just the collapse of industrial civilization (which would already starve billions)

THIS culture is starving billions. Are you aware that 80% of the population live on less than $10 a day? Are you aware of the numbers of people suffering malnutrition? This is not natural. This is not normal.

Anyway this talk about agriculture is a derail, I mentioned it only to point out that I'm not strongly identified with Labour.

Given that your objective of full deindustrialization and deagriculturation would pretty much be the mother of austerity for humanity, I do see certain parallels between your and Labour's policies. Including the denial to actually advocate austerity. Just sayin'.

But if we lived in an anarchist culture then you would have no rights at all, nobody would, and the first people to die of hunger/hypothermia/lack of medical attention will be the POOR so how do you square that away with yourself?

According to Terry Pratchett it's roaches.

Now that's depressing.

But if we lived in an anarchist culture then you would have no rights at all, nobody would, and the first people to die of hunger/hypothermia/lack of medical attention will be the POOR so how do you square that away with yourself?

And first in line women with their children. Ironic, isn't it?

Also reL WPUK, I dont want to do that. WPUK is HUNDREDS of women all over the country who have given their all and achieved something amazing., It was inevitable that elite women with existing political resources and identities would do this at this stage, but in fact even some women I really despise from major publications they are learnig about these systems through this process and didnt mean owt. I objected to the behaviour of a couple of people, who have done serious damage and tried hard to undermine other women. that happens. We'll get past it. It was necessary to set a boundary and say we cat do what was done to Posie but that is not th esame as me not recognising how fucking marvellous WPUK and ALL of us have been. Diversity is the key and keeping hard left delusional nutcases from turning this into another left wing clusterfuck, but I dont want people thinking I dont support WPUK. I do. I am wary of SOME women at the core because we have seen an attempt to replicate some very harmfl stuff. I think thats nipped in th bud and I dont think it will happen again. Sometimes teeth have to be bared to make sure that something is understood to be unacceptable but chucking the baby out with the bathwater and undermining the efforts of so many women on that basis is stupid. I try not to be that. Its also unkind and inaccurate. Without WPUK using their resources to go town to town and inspired moments like that contact your council about sex protections stuff, we'd be nowhere.

Also I live in a town where we have food growing everywhere. Incredible Edible. Its great for trying new vegetables but it aint going to keep your cupboards full and while inventing a time machine to go back to the stone age and getting us all foraging is an interesting idea, I'll stick with learning how systems function from their breakdown so the shit that happened in the last eight years doest happen again x

But if we lived in an anarchist culture then you would have no rights at all, nobody would, and the first people to die of hunger/hypothermia/lack of medical attention will be the POOR so how do you square that away with yourself?

You're supporting a culture in which a billion people suffer from malnutrition. 200 species are dying a day. Our air is poisoned, our water is poisoned, our food is poisoned. Very soon there will be more plastic by weight in the ocean than fish. This land used to be covered in forest and it used to be thick with deer, mushrooms, rabbits, wolves, the rivers were full of fish. You're supporting a culture which is systematically wiping out life on this planet.

By the way, if you missed it, all of those living beings I mentioned are edible. Humans haven't always had to deal with the scarcity that we have now.

You don’t know what culture I support. (I don’t vote Labour by the way)

I was addressing the culture that you support. Tell us how anarchy would be good for the planet and it’s population.

I've already explained. Industrial capitalism and agriculture are inherently destructive. We are animals like any other. We need oxygen (trees, grasses), food (animals, plants) and clean water. You are supporting the continuation of agriculture, industrial capitalism, the murder of the planet.

No you haven’t explained at all, you have told us why you don’t like capitalism, so lay it all out here for us -

How will an anarchist society be good for the population and the planet?

Have a look into Derrick Jensen and Lierre Kieth - dgrnewsservice.org/resistance-culture/radical-feminism/lierre-keith-the-girls-and-the-grasses/

George Monbiot writes about re-wilding too.

I'm sorry you're not really grasping what I've been saying, it's quite simple really. It's about shifting your thinking to what is good for other life forms, what the living world needs, what is sustainable.

Humans can learn to coexist within a thriving biosphere, as we have done for hundreds of thousands of years prior to the advent of agriculture and the patriarchal class society which accompanied it.

Gerder Lerner's - The creation of patriarchy is another good book.