Women on the left are responsible for austerity

[CarrotyO]

I've heard it said that women on the left actually support and are therefore in some way responsible for austerity. This is because both Labour and the Tories support austerity. Therefore any woman who supports Labour, or the Left in general, also knowingly and consciously supports austerity and are therefore also responsible for the 1000s of deaths of disabled people caused by austerity. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

well hundred of thousands of years ago only the fittest survived, there was no pity party for the disabled...who probably were not fed from day one of birth. regardless of political programs or affiliation people die sad but true.

This thread is mad as fuck.

Unfortunately the damage has been done by capitalism and greed. We can't turn back the clock. Murdering 80% of the population won't enable the survivors to return to an idyllic life of hunter gatherers, they'll need to deal with the toxic waste that's been created.

I'm sorry you're not really grasping what I've been saying

I am grasping exactly what you are saying, but it’s irrelevant to what I asked you, which you keep avoiding answering.

I’m not interested in the systems you don’t like, I want you to tell us about the ‘system’ that you want- which is anarchy, explain how that will work for the good of the planet and the population.

I actually have a lot of sympathy for eco feminism, but not much for watching people who by their own admission aren't really involved in Labour organizing try to shut down discussions of internal problems within the party by people who very much are involved.

This thread epitomises the schism between social ecology & deep ecology.

Ultimately the deep ecologists have the upper hand... we all need the material reality of a healthy planet to survive.

We're in an awful double bind. Without industrial civilisation, billions will die. Because of industrial civilisation, billions will die.

The elephant in the room is that we've artficially inflated our numbers by several orders of magnitude, due to exhausting soils, fossil fuels, green revolution, drawing down rivers, mechanistic technology etc.

If we want humanity to continue, we need to control our numbers in non lethal (ie 4 horseman) ways. Contraception & birth control. Education for girls & small business loans for women. When girls are educated & empowered they marry latet & have fewer children.

An earth centred approach is compatible with feminism & justice.

You what!?

ChilliJamandAvocado I agree with that, but we also need to stop creating more waste and clear up the mess we already made.

I'm not in favour of a "system of anarchy" as I guess you understand it underhereye I said I'm an anarcho-primitivist radical feminist. I'm arguing for a sustainable way of life as I have described. That isn't the point of this thread though, it's a derail. If you're interested in it then read that article I posted or look into Derrick Jensen.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-primitivism

What a shitty thread. Humans not caring for its sick and disabled? Really? The evidence suggests the opposite. Overwhelmingly so.
And it's incredibly offensive to suggest that women naturally don't have children because they instead choose to go into business. Like the working woman is smart and the mother is stupid.
Wow.

Humans would have a lot more time to care for the sick and disabled if we weren't tethered to shitty 40 hour work weeks. Hunter-gatherer societies have loads of leisure time, it only takes a couple of hours to get enough food for the day. The rest of the time can be sent socialising etc.

Evidence shows that the biggest impact on birth rates is girls learning to read. If we empower girls, the birth rate falls.

Sword, don't be disingenuous this isn't about SAHM vs WOHM. I'm referring to empowering developing world girls through literacy, education & skills so they can have work opportunities & go on to have 2 or 3 kids in their 20s, not 12+ kids from age 14.

Anarcho primitivism? I wish I had known this before I responded to you. This thread is very funny. Anarcho primitivism? Lololololol I love studenty politics. I know its juts for identity formation but it doesnt half come up with some crackers..

My favorite is "anarcho-communism". Um...

My absolute favourite is fully automated luxury communism as a response to austerity.

My favorite studenty statement was "I'm a communist so I don't believe in work".

I did an internship on a lefty rag, and I was part of a conversation where they EXPLAINED to me that discussing budgeting and austerity and parenting was holding up the capitalist system and my actions were ont revolutionary. Er. They were also not paying me.

Forget about the label Lisa, it’s not important. Everything I’ve said is factual. It’s an evidence based understanding of society. This culture shows no sign of stopping but I think it’s important for people to acknowledge the reality of it. It helps to put things into perspective. The vast majority of your consumer goods are made by poor people in the global south who are sent down mines and shut into factories whilst their rivers are poisoned and their soil depleted to feed the north. We are heading towards catastrophic climate change and the total collapse of biodiversity across the planet. Over 95% of the earths forests and grasslands are gone. Everything is ramping up massively in terms of pollution and ecocide. Knowing, and stating, these facts has got nothing to do with identity politics.

By the way. I find it quite disconcerting that women are speaking to me in such a rude way. I’ve been very polite with every comment and never attack anyone personally.

I’m a radical feminist so I look for the root of the issue. I’ve never heard anyone describe Lierre Kieth and Derrick Jensen’s politics as “studenty politics” I’m sure they would find that hilarious.

If we want humanity to continue, we need to control our numbers in non lethal (ie 4 horseman) ways. Contraception & birth control. Education for girls & small business loans for women. When girls are educated & empowered they marry latet & have fewer children.

Agreed Chili. Also, a lot can be said about industrial agriculture and how it erodes soil / breeds superweeds an in the long term threatens human survival. (But doing away with agriculture all together in response is like jumping from a cliff because someone predicts ones probable death within the next five years).

What I have a problem with is this mindset that centers other species. If it really is not about the survival of the human species, then talk about 'saving the planet' is irrelevant. Our industrial activities will create a warmer and more plastic/chemical laden environment. But that is just a different environment for species to adapt to (unless we turn Earth into another Venus courtesy industrial civilization. But how probable is that). Who is to say that it is better for the Scandinavian Tundra Roach to inherit the Earth compared to the more heat resistant African Bush Roach (ok, I made these up). Microbes in the Pacific have already evolved to degrade plastic. Give it a million years, and some 'new normal' will be reached.

The only rational coordinate system, where the idea to 'save the planet' makes sense, is one that centers the survival of humans.

This is the most bonkers thread I have ever encountered on MN.

200 species are dying a day as a result of human activity. It’s not fair to humans or to non humans.

Did you see the news story recently about the murder of 30,000 elephants a year? Do you think that’s a rational outcome because one day “a new normal will be reached”. I think that’s a really sad view of the world.