Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowling

158 replies

Velella · 13/09/2018 21:05

JK Rowling is being called out on twitter by Owl for liking Janice Turner's fox-in-the-henhouse article.

Many of us have thought for a long while that JKR is on side. I wish she would come out publicly and fully support women.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
thewitchofwentworth · 14/09/2018 01:32

This person appears to be acting like the morality police they have in Iran. Relentlessly stalking women to make sure they don't step out of line.

lydiamajora · 14/09/2018 06:32

Three "reference"s in a sentence makes me blergh. That said, I am also in the woke age bracket while not, myself, being woke. We definitely exist, and it is nice to see JK is a woman of sense.

Shall go queue up my Potter audiobooks and settle in with my crocheting...

Stickerladiesoftheworldunite · 14/09/2018 07:01

*There was a post on twitter a few days ago by a GC feminist (I can't recall who, sorry) where, to paraphrase, she said she wished she'd understood when first entering into this debate, that you might as well be hung for a sheep than a lamb.

Essentially she was alluding to the reality that however tentatively and sensitively you support a position/opinion that doesn't fall behind the total capitulation of sex based rights you're vilified as a TERF.**

This. Caroline Lucas capitulated and they still hung her.

SophoclesTheFox · 14/09/2018 07:24

Come on JK - they've already turned on you - GO FOR IT! Grin

FermatsTheorem · 14/09/2018 07:25

Re. rape fantasies - yes, a not insignificant number of women have them (I write fanfiction, so I know this all too well - they are remarkably prevalent in what is a female-dominated subculture, where predominantly women write for a predominantly female audience).

However, it is important to remember that such fantasies may be coming from exactly the same place - namely, a maladaptive coping strategy to the ubiquitous threat of male violence.

There are a number of "explanations" for their popularity, none of which hinges on the truly stupid idea that women actually want to be raped.

  1. what you might call the classic lib-fem explanation: they're not about rape at all, they're a metaphor for being overwhelmed by passion in a world which tells you that female sexuality is so wrong that the only way you can allow yourself to let go and enjoy sex is if you were "made to do it." (I have talked to women from US fundy Christian backgrounds who say this is in fact an accurate description of the way their sexuality got distorted by their upbringing.)

  2. The rad-fem analysis: male sexual violence is so widespread that a form of society-wide Stockholm syndrome sets in. Some women eroticise their sexual oppression because they use it as a coping strategy to avoid facing up to the fact that if they don't consent to sex, it may be forced upon them anyway.

  3. As a form of cathartic working through of events after someone has been raped - fiction becomes a way of re-working the narrative in such a way that the reader/writer is in control.

All of these, it seems to me, are coming from exactly the same place as the young teen who opts to try to avoid being sexualised by men altogether by "identifying" as a man - they are all maladaptive coping strategies, forms of cognitive dissonance, to cope with life in a shitty patriarchal world.

What they are not is like the motivation of a male consumer of rape porn. A male consumer of rape porn's motivation is much simpler: he is identifying with the rapist and getting off on the idea of raping women. This motivation is entirely sinister, and why, while I have had female friends who were into rape porn, I'd run a mile from any man who admitted to enjoying rape porn.

And for the record, I do not believe the claims that "more women than men" watch rape porn on porn hub. I think that's an MRA crock of shit, like the "women and men commit DV in equal numbers" crock of shit (which basically translates as "we're going to count all repeated instances where the male perpetrator beats the shit out of the female victim as one incident, and give it equal weight to the one occasion on which the female victim shoves the man out of the way in her efforts to escape.)

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 14/09/2018 07:40

YANBU. There is no safe option to use in regards to someone who describes themselves as nonbinary. Which is likely to be part of their reason for doing so, imo - so much delicious power in making everyone walk on eggshells.

Yes. Absolutely.

Datun · 14/09/2018 07:44

Owl telling JK Rowling off for not supporting a rapist in a female prison is a gift. And another example how how arrogance and misogyny spectacularly clouds their judgment. Scant as it is.

I should imagine they're pretty pissed off with foxes being widely used to represent predators too.

Remind me, was it Owl or Fox who said homosexuality was 'deviant' in that video?

Floisme · 14/09/2018 07:48

Hold your nerve JK. What would Hermione do?

MorrisZapp · 14/09/2018 07:59

Last time was so much fun. They were raging at her 'hypocrisy' because didn't she invent transfiguration classes?

Personally I always thought McGonagall was an ocean going TERF and Hermione was her heir apparent.

Come on JK, you know what to do.

Tanith · 14/09/2018 08:04

Third rate writer tries to increase their profile by attacking famous author.

Firelegs · 14/09/2018 08:05

The whole thing reminds me a bit of the people who ‘identify as disabled’ in the Career of Evil book.

Wanting to appropriate a ‘victim role’ in society in order to have power over others and feel superior.

Firelegs · 14/09/2018 08:05

Ha, what would McGonagall say?!

An you imagine Grin

MsBeaujangles · 14/09/2018 08:09

Fermats

The key thing about ‘rape fantasy’ is that the fantasiser is in control, either of their internal fantasies or of their viewing. Therefore, essentially, such a fantasy is nothing like an actual rape.

Sorry, just realised that this is a bit of a derail. I just wanted to agree with the challenges you were offering!

nauticant · 14/09/2018 08:59

The neatest summary I've seen of this business:

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1040300874944397312

AngryAttackKittens · 14/09/2018 09:04

In reference to the reference to Owl's reference tweet I have to say, Owl's writing is terrible. I guess that does explain the need to generate publicity by nipping at Rowling's heels like a yappy little terrier.

LangCleg · 14/09/2018 09:13

And my question is - how can I POSSIBLY know what pronoun to use with a being who refers to itself/themself/themselves/zie##@$++self as Owl? I mean how?

A strike does seem unfair. I have absolutely no idea about this couple other than what's been written on here. I have no idea which one's which, either in TRAland terms or in biological sex terms. I'd have to go and research pronouns before using one, which seems ludicrous if I just want to post a two line comment. I mean, is neutral "they" ok if you don't know? Or does that result in toys out of the pram as well?

heresyandwitchcraft · 14/09/2018 09:18

You can fuck right off trying to smear JK Rowling. Woman has accomplished more than all the TRAs put together. JK is a mum, massively successful author, and creator of a MASSIVE cultural phenomenon. JK could sign a piece of toilet paper and it would be worth more than Owl’s entire “literary output.” Fuck off with this bullying.

AngryAttackKittens · 14/09/2018 09:35

Following on from Lang's comment, expecting people to use personalized pronouns is unreasonable. How are we meant to know which non-standard pronouns a given individual might prefer? It's like expecting us to know whether in her personal life Rowling prefers to be referred to as Joanne or Jo or something else entirely.

nauticant · 14/09/2018 09:41

And my question is - how can I POSSIBLY know what pronoun to use with a being who refers to itself/themself/themselves/zie##@$++self as Owl? I mean how?

Here are your options:
you go neutral and find yourself damned for not showing respect,
you make a guess, probably wrongly, and get accused of literal violence, or
you go through a submissive behaviour routine in which you dance on eggshells soliciting their instructions on how to proceed.

Datun · 14/09/2018 09:47

There is no such thing as preferred pronouns. It's compelled pronouns.

BettyDuMonde · 14/09/2018 10:59

My ex husband seems to have noticed the pronoun debate. I’ve not mentioned the topic to him at all but at kid handover yesterday he was telling me about one of his clients who goes by ‘they’.

Direct quote from ex-husband:

‘And so I said, oh, do fuck off, you aren’t a plural, you knob’

Grin

(Ex husband has more Instagram followers than Shon Faye, Paris Lees, Fox, Owl and Juno Dawson combined - he’s not afraid of the cool kids)

BettyDuMonde · 14/09/2018 11:03

(Fermats excellent post, but I assume it was meant for the ‘Porn - yes or no?’ thread?)

FermatsTheorem · 14/09/2018 11:06

"Pronouns" in the hands of someone like Owl are the classic abusers tactic of setting you up to fail. Cook the scambled egg for 2.5 minutes, it's too runny, night of screaming abuse, the silent treatment, punch to the face. Cook the scrambled egg for 3 minutes - it's too hard, night of screaming abuse, the silent treatment, punch to the face.

LTB is the only way forward in these situations. Which in the context of the trans debate, translates to "leave your liberal feminism behind - because nothing you do will ever appease these people, they will just keep moving the goalposts - and experience the freedom of a life in the radical feminist uplands."

FermatsTheorem · 14/09/2018 11:08

Yup, Betty, I get in a muddle from time to time.

Though the TL:DR version is germaine to this thread. Which is:
Women eroticising rape in order to deal with the epidemic levels of sexual violence in our society and women deciding they are trans/non-binary in order to deal with the epidemic levels of sexual violence in our society are doing the same thing - embracing a maladaptive coping mechanism to deal with the cognitive dissonace brought on by having to live around men, any one of which could be a sexual abuser.

LangCleg · 14/09/2018 11:16

"Pronouns" in the hands of someone like Owl are the classic abusers tactic of setting you up to fail.

And it's so insidious. I used "they" when talking about a prominent TRA at home the other day and honestly, I wouldn't even have known I'd done it had not DS2 said, "Don't be a wimp, Mum."