The term "men in dresses"

[AuntMsVanillaRose]

Trans-excluders like to say that they're absolutely fine with boys who don't fit in with gender stereotypes. And I, not one of you, am fine with children not fitting gender stereotypes. But I don't think that is true of all of you. Why is "man in a dress" used as an insult by so many of you?

I do agree that there are very few outwardly available ways to express femininity because it IS just a dress code in so many ways to alot of men.

Apparently it interferes with their uniform and the signal that they are women.

So they're admitting that they look like men in dresses then and other men can't do it because we won't be able to tell the transwomen from the men. Lol. Funny innit how biological women can wear dresses or trousers and we can still see they are women.

BeyondAnOmnishambles I'm aware middle eastern men have a specific word for their garments, which obviously isn't the english word 'dress'. I was merely trying to point out that clothing is cultural and not all cultures have men wearing western style trousers.

If western men wish to break out of the traditional trouser wearing mould and start wearing clothing typically associated with women then I think that's great.

I fully respect whatever anyone wants to wear.

I think the line is crossed when men use traditional women's clothing to claim they ARE women and insist on invading women's protected spaces.

I disagree. Fun though the breakfast posts are- and I have been guilty of asking a poster if they have a cake to decorate myself- I think we are shooting ourselves in the foot when we do it. I think we should ignore or engage. But not derail.

I know it's not strictly a dress.

Call me an optimist if you like, but I think a ‘men’s red carpet/runway/celebrity fashions combined WITH breakfast foods AND viewed through a feminist lens’ thread is totally do-able.

Men wearing non-trousers is completely acceptable in many parts of the world outside the global north west.

What about men wearing dresses while eating breakfast?

All beautiful and masculine imo

Terfsup What about if the trousers are avocado green. Dilemma

I can see the way things are going, we are going to have to saying non-trousers.

Datun, that article is astounding. The level of misogyny is breathtaking.

Why are you all getting your posts deleted!! Isn't it 3 strikes and out.
Men in dresses are men in dresses but they are not women. Isn't it conforming to gender sterotypes that if you are a man who prefers to act feminine, dress feminine you feel you must be a woman? Apart from those who have sex dysphoria, why if you don't have a psychological condition as many transgender people claim , do they feel that because they prefer how the opposite sex looks/is treated in society that they would rather claim to be a member of the opposite sex than than actually challenge the stereotypes of how men / women should look and behave. Now that would be brave...

Bertrand. Ahem. I genuinely do think Bowie looks better in that dress than a suit. No idea why or what that says about me Maybe it's a combination of the aesthetics and 'so what?' ness of it?

Twiggy Ramirez is one bloke who looks fantastic in a dress...

I would not feel the same if Bowie used the dress to claim womanhood. Shon Faye looks great in a dress. But in Shon's case I see the misogyny first, IYSWIM. The misogyny turns Shon's attire into a costume. Whereas in Bowie's case he's just wearing what he wants and happens to look great.

It is shit like this [Jaden Smith wearing dresses] that gets us REAL transgender people killed. Thanks

1. Dear TRAs, where is your evidence for this?
2. Dear TRAs, by what mechanism do men in dresses get trans people killed? Intuitively, I would expect men in dresses to reduce risk, by normalising dress-wearing for biological males.
3. Male violence, not male dress-wearing, is what kills trans people and women alike.

The trouble is, by deleting the breakfast chat you are making this thread look more controversial than it is.

Totally - I was very intrigued to find out what guidelines had been broken. Didn't know there were porridge guidelines now.

Trans-excluders like to say that they're absolutely fine with boys who don't fit in with gender stereotypes.

No one here is a trans-excluder, so you've failed at the first hurdle.

And I, not one of you, am fine with children not fitting gender stereotypes.

This is slightly confusing. Are you contradicting your imagined gotcha from your first sentence? Or, are you trying to separate yourself from the intelligent and thoughtful women of FWR, as some kind of "please don't attack me when I fuck up TRAs, because I know you will, I've seen you do it before" gambit?

But I don't think that is true of all of you.

So, here you're straightforwardly contradicting your opening imagined gotcha.

Why is "man in a dress" used as an insult by so many of you?

It's not. As has been comprehensively shown.

So, now a question for you.

Why do you post unfathomably ridiculous threads and then not come back to discuss/dispute/apologise when you've had your arse handed to you? It makes you look either slightly incapable or, at worst, a bit of a bridge dweller, which seems like a strange look to go for as you're trying to get quotes to put on Twitter.

I have a son who doesn't fit in with gender stereotypes. I am absolutely fine with it. Do you have children OP?

Please don't deny my lived experience. It's literal violence, makes me suicidal etc etc

‘Trans-excluders’ I just can’t take that seriously - it sounds so utterly silly. Not one that’ll catch on, I’m afraid, OP. Back to the drawing board.

As for the term ‘men in dresses’ I’ve never used it myself. Men can wear whatever the fuck they like, so long as it’s not offensive.

The term is pretty clearly a reference to male socialisation and privilege not being cancelled out by sticking on a dress. A fact which is being made abundantly clear by any number of transwomen in the public eye right now.

Yeah I'm loving these pics, I really did enjoy the bowie one. The pose, the black and white, the scenery. Yep, nice.
Not such a fan of that Van Ness one, but he looks happy!

This thread is crazy. Obvious troll starts goady post, women show their disdain with food related posts - those silly women get called bullied & deleted.
Did anyone really think the op was genuine or kind? Really? No, it's the women who are only allowed to speak when we meet the feminine standards of kindness.
Fuck. That.

Also, I just had nice chicken Korma on rice. Yum. My brain is not liking the idea of sweet avocado... nope.

Ugh. Should be 'get called bullies '

I can see the way things are going, we are going to have to say non-trousers.

Probably because we all know that anything which is usually associated with women and girls automatically becomes an insult when applied to men and boys.

Trans excluders...