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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The magnificent Jane Clare Jones

79 replies

Anlaf · 09/09/2018 20:03

I think she's thoroughly great already, and she has just published this on "Gay Rights and Trans Rights – A Compare and Contrast"

janeclarejones.com/2018/09/09/gay-rights-and-trans-rights-a-compare-and-contrast

Subtitle So, Momentum made a video huh?

Enjoy

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Awayfromitall · 14/09/2018 22:38

Thanks Anlaf, just watched this with DP.

If Jane Clare Jones is on this site, you are fabulous and a gifted teacher and I love your work!

arranfan · 23/09/2018 14:47

I have to update this for a recent tweet from JCJ:

If you think Orwell would be on board with a) totalitarian thought-policing, b) rewriting history, c) forcing people to deny material reality under threat of force, and d) denunciation, you are on fucking glue.

The thread: twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1043574454633291777

Anlaf · 23/09/2018 19:14
Grin

She is just such a great twitter-battler.

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carceralfeminist · 23/09/2018 19:22

I have great love for Jane Clare Jones. Magnificent is truly the right word, Anlaf.

terryleather · 23/09/2018 19:36

Just got round to watching The Reality Report that Anlaf linked to, it's fucking stupendous and I think I love JCJ even more than I did before if that's possible - she's such a brilliantly clear communicator.

Thanks so much for posting that link Anlaf

Anlaf · 23/09/2018 20:13

If I can add a couple of additional items to the agenda for this evening's meeting of the JCJ Fanclub, Grin, we have:

Jane's very helpful ordered tweet threads
twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1040974347127730177?s=19

Some bits on threadreader (a little easier on the eye than twitter)
threadreaderapp.com/user/janeclarejones

A bit on intrsectionality and trabsactivism
janeclarejones.com/2018/08/27/trans-activism-and-intersectional-feminism/

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Anlaf · 23/09/2018 20:14

Spelling, sorry. does this get me out if having to do the minutes

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Anlaf · 23/09/2018 21:42

Actually, I had to dig this out. On how words mean what they mean and why someone could argue it's just too hard to define a woman, sorry, table:

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/562932712542330880?s=19

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Anlaf · 04/10/2018 21:26

Another magnificent piece has arrived from the JCJ, and i've only just noticed.

As sharing a Jane Clare Jones piece will get you banned from the Lib Dem Women's Network, please enjoy this potentially dangerous womanly thinking.

when trans ideologues and their allies wheel out some vague-ish claim that they’re leading us to liberation by ‘undoing’ or ‘challenging’ binaries, they are, in fact, repeating exactly the problem that the original critique of ‘binaries and why they are bad’ was trying to address. What this comes down to is that people don’t understand the distinction between ‘a binary’ and ‘a difference.’ And in some sense this whole stupid clusterfuck... rests on that confusion

janeclarejones.com/2018/10/01/a-note-on-smashing-the-binary/amp/

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pennydrew · 04/10/2018 21:36

Oh my, I just read a thread she retweeted on the suicide stats. Fucking hell. The TRA’s are not just exaggerating, they’re making it up from nothing. Ffs.

Anlaf · 04/10/2018 21:45

This thread? It's v impressive- a search of Serious Case Reviews finds no children died by suicide who were trans in 10 yr period
twitter.com/PankhurstEM/status/1047870548968189952?s=19

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pennydrew · 04/10/2018 21:56

Yes! That’s the exact opposite of what they claim. This is outrageous that they get away with it.

NotMeOhNo · 04/10/2018 22:05

Well that's explosive information. I hope the media picks up on it for their headlines.

thatdamnwoman · 04/10/2018 23:43

I'm about two hours through the You Tube video that explains Judith Butler's theories and how they've put us in the position we're in. I'm not particularly clever but she explains it so well — you can see precisely how Butler has got women into this terrible position. I suddenly understand where some of the clever young people I meet have got their bizarre ideas from and I understand why, at a feminist conference a few years ago I felt it was being terribly patronised by some of the young women. I had no idea that many younger women who classify themselves as feminists are excited by the idea of erasing a biological-based concept of woman.

Jane Clare Jones, thank you. I appear to have a functioning brain. Brillliant and so relaxed and apparently effortlessly chatty. This is a life-changer. I'd like a stiff word with Judith Butler.

What kind of people can latch on to this deeply flawed theory and turn it into a movement where women are leading the march to annihilate their rights? Is this what Ruth Hunt believes?

Anlaf · 05/10/2018 07:56

She is so good. And productive!

There is more from Jane Clare on Queer Theory on this thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3355827-Queer-theory-and-what-it-means-in-extremis

With an introduction to the great thinker MRA arse that is Michel Foucalt.

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LangCleg · 05/10/2018 08:01

I honestly think Jane has the best feminist analysis of current events on offer. She's fab.

Anlaf · 05/10/2018 08:19

Yep!

I had badly not read much feminist theory because I thot it boring and inaccessible

But am now thrilled to be learning what the hell it all is from Jane.

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LangCleg · 05/10/2018 08:26

Anlaf - you might also like this blog, which criticises the gender religion from a socialist (proper left, not the regressive left of the genderists) perspective. Some really good pieces on there:

freerlives.wordpress.com/

thatdamnwoman · 05/10/2018 08:52

Jane Clare Jones seems to see it as I see it. It's always a relief to have someone who really knows what they're talking about agree with you.

I used to be a wishy-washy second wave feminist who hadn't read all the books: now I'm apparently a radfem warrior if you go by the reaction of the neoliberal young 'feminists' whom I encounter everywhere.

I do think Ruth Hunt has swallowed it whole. I hadn't realised Butler is a lesbian. I bet Ruth has a little altar to Judith somewhere in her Hackney home. It's got to be Hackney, hasn't it?

Anlaf · 06/10/2018 16:38

Ooh, thanks Lang. Will have a nosey

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Anlaf · 13/10/2018 00:24

Our fave is on it again janeclarejones.com/2018/10/12/identity-sovereignty-and-narcissism

Have had a few wines but thinking this isn't the jcj piece to start with? But then, maybe it is, as it starts to explain how reality is affected by this whole thinking-mess.

I haven't read lang's link above yet properly, but am procrastinating by reading a reinterpretation of engels for feminism.

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ohello · 13/10/2018 03:46

From the article, this bit appears particularly useful:

"So, to get down to it. The discourse of ‘homophobia’ fundamentally relies on the idea that gay-people are discriminated against on the basis of moral disgust. And inside that are two more interwoven ideas. One, that moral disgust is not a legitimate basis for telling people what not to do. (Correct) Especially not when your disgust-feels are causing serious harm to other people. (Also correct) And even more especially given that moral disgust is a nasty, vicious emotion that tends to shade very easily into violence (and I mean that in the old-fashioned sense of ‘literal violence’). Two, that because discrimination against homosexuality was entirely mediated by moral disgust, there was, in fact, no legitimate basis for that discrimination, and all objections were, effectively, moral disgust in drag. That is, the success of gay rights was substantially down to disseminating the idea that that were no good reasons for anyone to object to their agenda, and that everyone objecting was just a nasty evil bigot whose ideas shouldn’t be given any weight as part of democratic political debate."

Actually, the whole article. I hope more people read it. I am not disgusted by transpeople, but I def am very afraid of random dicks anywhere near me when I'm getting undressed or otherwise vulnerable. And EVERYBODY has the right to set limits on who gets to share space them when they are naked and vulnerable.

I'm sorry, anybody who would compel me to relax my boundaries is just an abuser. Transpeople, I'm looking at YOU.

Fearandsurprise · 13/10/2018 05:55

A poster on another thread mentioned a study that found the suicide rate was higher for Trans people after they transitioned compared to before. I can’t recall if that was from the UK, though.

arranfan · 13/10/2018 10:58

I'm sorry to see her Twiiter account is now protected - I hope she's OK and not besieged: twitter.com/janeclarejones

Ereshkigal · 13/10/2018 11:02

A poster on another thread mentioned a study that found the suicide rate was higher for Trans people after they transitioned compared to before. I can’t recall if that was from the UK, though.

I think it's the Swedish study from the Karolinska institute. The one that also measures crime.