Has Dh out-feministed me, what do you think?

[TooMuchPenis]

Just reading this article and this woman thinks the flight attendant was wrong to call her 'Miss". I think the flight attendant was trying to get 200 people on an airline and probably did quite well to get 'Yes, Miss O'dwyer' out before pointing her in the general direction of her seat.

unless I am mistaken and someone literally changed her boarding card to read Miss instead of Dr I don't think this is the crime of the century. in a conversation, I could totally understand her annoyance with someone getting it wrong but this is just someone misspeaking while under pressure? I also think her original tweet calling the woman a "trolly dolley" way more offensive to women and working class people and this whole thing reads less like feminism and more like "don't you know who I am!".

Dh says if you go to school for 8 years it's the least you can expect and this is the same as me getting offended when people instist on calling me miss after I have corrected them to Ms.* So who's right?

www.indy100.com/article/doctor-medicine-calls-out-airline-qantas-everyday-sexism-controversy-reaction-twitter-8525826

*For the record, I'd have no issue whatsoever if someone called me Miss in the rush instead of Ms in this situation which is again why it feels less about feminism than about academic credentials.

I'm not sure what you mean though?

I suspect you do, but anyway...

There are many women who expect to be addressed as 'Mrs', especially when the address is in writing (on invites, letters etc.) and no one thinks anything of this because 'Mrs' is acceptable for women. But if women insist on 'Dr' or even 'Ms' (and not Mrs or Miss) it is often somehow less acceptable.

Only necessary when publishing

actually very rarely used when publishing!

"Does having a qualification make your backside a different shape"

Well, not quite there yet, but my arse is definitely bigger from all of the sitting down and reading

There are many women who expect to be addressed as 'Mrs', especially when the address is in writing (on invites, letters etc.) and no one thinks anything of this because 'Mrs' is acceptable for women

Personally I think insisting on being "Mrs" and proclaiming to the world , whether the world needs or wants to know, that one has nabbed a husband is a bit silly.

But if women insist on 'Dr' or even 'Ms' (and not Mrs or Miss) it is often somehow less acceptable

Who says that on here? And again there is a world of difference between a bank or an employer etc refusing to use the preferred title and this tiny, hurried interaction.

No I didn't know what you mean!

My MIL insisted on being called "Mrs" and got really angry when eg people at tha bank called her first name last name, she found it overly familiar and disrespectiful.

I felt she was a being a bit precious but I never dug into it as I didn't know her that long before she died. Also, she was quite intimidating and argumentative and I don't think it would have ended well!

So no - I didn't know what you mean.

If it's about people wanting to be addressed as mrs / ms / miss rather than the wrong one that seems oK - certainyl Ms people get fucked off with beign called Mrs or Miss and the whole thing is a minefield for women and a feminist issue obv.

If it's about wanting to be called mrs rather than just a name then that's a different thing.

"But if women insist on 'Dr' or even 'Ms' (and not Mrs or Miss) it is often somehow less acceptable."

No-one has said this?

The people (and I know some) who think non medical doctors using Dr are twats, apply this in a unisex manner.

With them it's about snobbery > not sex.

Only necessary when publishing

actually very rarely used when publishing!

It's not used in references, but has to be declared when submitting to publish.

I guess it's used in written contexts in the work place, but not when introducing one Dr to Dr for example, as the title is presumed.
It would get a bit silly with everyone constantly saying Dr .

In groups and out groups.

It's divisive. Hierarchical.

Do away with the whole lot I say.

But as I stated we don't look at the boarding passes to say the surname. It's for security, believe it or not I've had people board the wrong aircraft before 😂

I'm not saying she shouldn't be recognised for her achievements. A doctorate is a huge achievement and of course she should be recognised for it.

A lot of the time though when we are boarding, and against time constraints, people are just sir or madam. Sometimes I look at the last name and don't register what is ahead of it!

At the same time, it makes no difference to us as crew wether the dr title is in front of a men or women's surname.
we carry hundreds of thousands of people a year, and within those flights we have hundreds of women doctors, Be it of science, art, or medical. And of course we recognise them when we can.

I'm not denying that there aren't people out there who don't believe that women can be doctors, and I understand it must be incredibly frustrating if someone obviously doubts it and refuses to use the title.

Crew are used to seeing thousands of people from different cultures, countries and academic backgrounds, does this woman really think that the crew deliberately didn't call her DR? Considering we have women with that title boarding every single flight, seems a bit unrealistic for her to be singled out?

Everyone who I have ever worked with has been respectful and uses the titles when possible. Sometimes it is not possible or human error happens. Can this woman really say she has never called someone by the wrong name? Can she really say that she hasn't made a mistake before?

There are many women who expect to be addressed as 'Mrs', especially when the address is in writing (on invites, letters etc.) and no one thinks anything of this because 'Mrs' is acceptable for women. But if women insist on 'Dr' or even 'Ms' (and not Mrs or Miss) it is often somehow less acceptable.

So true. Then it gets applauded and nobody would bat an eyelid. If Dr O'Dwyer had complained that the air steward called her 'Miss' instead of 'Mrs', I bet there would be loads of public support for her, probably slagging off the stewardess for being 'jealous' and going on about 'PC gone mad'. However, if it's a title that denotes status or hard work, then woe betide any woman who dares use it.
It was less than 100 years ago that women were not allowed to take degrees at some universities. Even if they topped their class. Look up Gwyneth Bebb, who sued the Law Society to try to get to practice as a solicitor. She beat so many mediocre men in her law finals, scoring a first. Even the judge and one of the barristers admitted that neither of them would ever have been capable of that achievement. Yet she was not allowed a degree because she had a vagina. I think women with PhDs should shout it from the rooftops personally. Fuck modesty.

Oh and female consultants can also be Ms or Mrs and many of them are. Personally, I think get rid of marital status based titles for women. It's so so offensive when you think about it.

I don't think that a woman who complained on twitter that an air steward had addressed them as Mrs rather than Miss and so had disrepected her would get "applauded"?

I think she'd get even more of a clobbering!

I'm surprised that 2 posters think that a woman who did that would get full support and everyone agreeing > a round of applause.

Women have been told forever that it's trivial to get annoyed when we are called mrs / miss / ms when we aren't IYSWIM.

I think they would get treated worse >> as PP said you don't have to work for that >> they'd get called precious and why is it important to have "won a man" and all of that stuff.

"So true. Then it gets applauded and nobody would bat an eyelid. If Dr O'Dwyer had complained that the air steward called her 'Miss' instead of 'Mrs', I bet there would be loads of public support for her, probably slagging off the stewardess for being 'jealous' and going on about 'PC gone mad'. However, if it's a title that denotes status or hard work, then woe betide any woman who dares use it. "

ie >> sorry but I think this is nonsense.
A woman who complained about that would get hammered, and probably worse.

A woman who complained about that would get hammered, and probably worse.

You reckon? The DM would adore her and there would be oodles of support from the middle-England commentators who hate feminists getting ideas above their station.

I’m sure it wouldn’t take long to find an Aibu thread with that exact content. I’d look myself, if I wasn’t posting from my phone

Totally she would be hammered.

people would say she was trivial and why did she want a prize for getting a man and old fahsioned and bitchy trying to get another woman sacked for an honest mistake.

women can do no right. is the bottom line.

whetehr the DM supported her or not would depend on the age / race / reliigon etc of the person vs the age / race / religion etc of teh air steward tbh

And house price too, don’t forget the house price!

people would say she was trivial and why did she want a prize for getting a man and old fahsioned and bitchy trying to get another woman sacked for an honest mistake.

From feminists and educated people, sure. Not from the general and misogynistic public though. If you think that would be treated the same, you are deluded. Imagine if a company e.g. an airline had a policy of calling all women Ms, regardless of marital status and refused to use the title Mrs. I can guarantee you that it would go down like a cold cup of sick. Sarah Vine would no doubt write a column entitled 'Why getting married is my biggest achievement and why feminists should shut up', which would garner loads of 'hear, hear' support.

Beyond. Of course. Plus the obligatory sad-face, clad in a brightly coloured shift-dress and the obligatory nude heels, clutching hubby's arm, under the headline 'why I am proud to be Mrs Jones'.

Peak, there are a few “but I want to be called mrs” on here...
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3246905-Ms-Mrs-Miss-overexcitement

Thanks, Beyond. I can feel my blood-pressure rising reading some of the replies.

we carry hundreds of thousands of people a year, and within those flights we have hundreds of women doctors, Be it of science, art, or medical. And of course we recognise them when we can.

Well, yes that. The flight attendant was unlikely to assume all the women doctors she was seeing regularly were impersonators. Also google tells me that there are more female gps than male so probably an awfully common sight.

I'm one of those annoying people who will correct a person to Ms in conversation. I do just think this is one of those occasions that if I'm acknowledged by name at all they've done pretty well.

Considering we have women with that title boarding every single flight, seems a bit unrealistic for her to be singled out?

Exactly.

Then it gets applauded and nobody would bat an eyelid. If Dr O'Dwyer had complained that the air steward called her 'Miss' instead of 'Mrs

I would think Mrs O'Dwyer was as much of
a prat as Dr O'Dwyer.

I do just think this is one of those occasions that if I'm acknowledged by name at all they've done pretty well

Yes. The whole incident just shouts vanity and ego. And tbh , not very bright. She could have corrected it there and then if it was important- not resort to Twitter.