Has Dh out-feministed me, what do you think?

[TooMuchPenis]

Just reading this article and this woman thinks the flight attendant was wrong to call her 'Miss". I think the flight attendant was trying to get 200 people on an airline and probably did quite well to get 'Yes, Miss O'dwyer' out before pointing her in the general direction of her seat.

unless I am mistaken and someone literally changed her boarding card to read Miss instead of Dr I don't think this is the crime of the century. in a conversation, I could totally understand her annoyance with someone getting it wrong but this is just someone misspeaking while under pressure? I also think her original tweet calling the woman a "trolly dolley" way more offensive to women and working class people and this whole thing reads less like feminism and more like "don't you know who I am!".

Dh says if you go to school for 8 years it's the least you can expect and this is the same as me getting offended when people instist on calling me miss after I have corrected them to Ms.* So who's right?

www.indy100.com/article/doctor-medicine-calls-out-airline-qantas-everyday-sexism-controversy-reaction-twitter-8525826

*For the record, I'd have no issue whatsoever if someone called me Miss in the rush instead of Ms in this situation which is again why it feels less about feminism than about academic credentials.

"Miss and Sir "

They aren't equivalent though.

This is always the thing - men's stuff, names titles etc are pretty straightforward and standard.
Women's - not so much. Miss is something you say, you would never call a women "Missus" though it's sort of vaguely insulting which is sexist in itself.

I think sir/madam are equivalents however.
The steward had her surname and "madam o'dwyer" is definitely wrong. anything else you have to take a stab at whether she's married OR use Ms which some women find insulting.
Maybe everyone should be titled Dr and then no issues lol

There was M or something suggested years ago - a title that didn't indicate sex or marital status. This has been overtaken by Mx now which means "hello I'm into identity politics".

In Germany Fraulein isn't used any more I don't think for some years and in France they took Madamoiselle off all official docs etc

As ever the stuff for women is kind of complex and causes people to take "sides" and lots of people don't know what to say etc
While the stuff for men is just fine and normal and uncontraversial
See also - genitals

I definitely think that the "trolley dolly" was worse than the air steward. Unless the steward did it on purpose / other stuff.

I think people who get horribly offended at others not using their academic titles in a non-work context are ridiculous

I also agree that using the phrase "trolley dolly" was as bad if not worse than the original issue

Ditto to both points. Dr O'Dwyer sounds a complete pain in the arse.

I'm not sure about titles at all.

They're about hierarchy more than anything else especially here in the UK.
I would happily ditch them and just have names.
I know a lot of people hate that famiarity though.

In Germany Fraulein isn't used any more I don't think for some years and in France they took Madamoiselle off all official docs etc

I'm usually allocated "Mrs" on French and Dutch websites. I'd use Mrs if it just meant adult female.

I always use Ms after seeing threads on MN, I understand it was always supposed to be the female equivalent of Mr, so it avoids any ambiguity or offence.

Maybe everyone should be titled Dr and then no issues lol

I've noticed on the websites of European law firms that just about everyone is a Dr.

Non medical doctors using the Dr out of work is totally wanky. (I am a non medical Dr and so are loads of my mates). No one I know uses it as the conversation goes.

“So Miss Smith....”
“Actually it’s Dr Smith”
“Oh right I didn’t know you were a doctor” (sounds interested cos they want to ask you about their great aunt’s hernia)
“I’m not I’ve got a PhD in art history”
“Oh” (disappointed)
TUMBLEWEED
You are filed away as a wanker

I wish the professionally offended would turn their attention to other things. I'm with you, OP.

It's a storm in an airplane tea cup.

I know plenty of medical doctors (of both sexes) who don’t travel under the Dr title. I’d be especially hesitant to travel under the Dr title if I was a PhD doctor.

Yes - it really is best avoided.

In this context, if I had accidentally been booked as Dr (company travel people sometimes don't realise you'd rather not) I don't think I'd have been very bothered.

However, I did see some serious issues highlighted recently of medical emergencies on planes being handled suboptimally because flight attendants wouldn't accept that women- I think it was particularly women of colour - were highly qualified medics. Now that matters.

@Whwhywhy reminds me of that scene in Friends when they’re in the hospital and Ross introduces himself as Dr Ross Geller, Rachel says “Shut up Ross, that actually means something here!”

The use of trolley dolly just shows that you can be highly educated yet remain ignorant.

Do boarding passes usually include a title?

Should I complain that last week Air France just printed my name with no title?

Why are people so fussed about titles? Neither of my parents expect others to call them Dr. ...

Do boarding passes usually include a title?

I think they always used to but don't now ... I just did an image search for boarding passes for BA and virgin - it looked as though some did, some didn't. Maybe depends whether e-pass, or where issued?

Why are people so fussed about titles?
Asks MrGHardy ...

I am fairly sure I've never checked whether my boarding pass had a title on it. I know the recent Air France one didn't but only because it's still stored on my phone.

Can I just point one thing out? The woman in question, Dr O’Dwyer, did NOT refer to anyone as a ‘trolly dolly’. That was a fellow academic who responded to her initial tweet. I thought that comment was pretty disgraceful but the academic in question has now deleted it and made her page private.

Also FYI, medical doctors get given an honorary doctorate title after completing an undergraduate degree. It’s actually the PhD which is the ‘real’ title. Just saying....

I don’t know what happened but there are a lot of assumptions on here that the poor flight attendant was just so stressed that they misspoke and it couldn’t possibly be sexism. At the same time, women are still being asked if ‘the man of the house’ is in when someone calls. Every time you are just dismissing the narrative of women complaining of sexism, you are adding to the problem.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_(title)

Interesting stuff re the Dr title. But yeah, the PhDs definitely had it first, so Dr O’Dwyer is more than entitled to use it.

The article linked is super unclear as to who actually said "trolley dolly", but I think you're correct that it was the other academic tweeting in support who said that.

How do we know that the flight attendant would have said "Dr" to a man? Isn't that a massive assumption?

To be fair, the trolley dolley tweet was from another academic.

That said, according to the good doctor who can read minds, the flight attendant, who was boarding hundreds of people, read her ticket, looked back up at her, reread the ticket and decided she was not a doctor and it must be a mistake, and called her miss. I mean really? This did not happen. Sounds like someone who spends their life searching for microaggressions.

I hate it when upper class or women in academia try and get working class women in trouble at their work. Similar thing happened on an American airline last year when a harried FA supposedly misgendered someone. The offended was straight it Twitter to get that women in trouble with her work too.

I kind of agree with what the 'male medical doctor' said...

Also, medical consultants are not 'Dr Smith' they are Miss Smith or Mr Smith (not sure I've come across a Ms or a Mrs at mine) which kind of takes away from it a bit. I'm not sure what it would say on their boarding passes, sounds like it could be Dr but I'm not sure if they all use that or stick with Mr/Miss etc. Maybe the medical lot like to go unnoticed!

Can I just point one thing out? The woman in question, Dr O’Dwyer, did NOT refer to anyone as a ‘trolly dolly’. That was a fellow academic

^ I thought that deserved to be in bold as so many people are saying Dr O'Dwyer wrote it. She didn't.

I’d say the reaction of the customer, to not only he initial “error” but also her use of the derogatory term afterwards, is very revealing about her own insecurities and obvious superiority complex. She’s not better than the flight att meant, but she likes to think she is.

After reading the few comments just above, I shall withdraw mine! I still think making a fuss of that is in very poor taste.

I wonder if this is the first time such a thing has happened to Dr O'Dwyer. I suspect not.
If it happened as she said - double take then swift decision to use 'Miss' - it's no wonder she's annoyed.
That would never happen to a man who had 'Dr' on his ticket, whether it was a medical title or not.