Has Dh out-feministed me, what do you think?

[TooMuchPenis]

Just reading this article and this woman thinks the flight attendant was wrong to call her 'Miss". I think the flight attendant was trying to get 200 people on an airline and probably did quite well to get 'Yes, Miss O'dwyer' out before pointing her in the general direction of her seat.

unless I am mistaken and someone literally changed her boarding card to read Miss instead of Dr I don't think this is the crime of the century. in a conversation, I could totally understand her annoyance with someone getting it wrong but this is just someone misspeaking while under pressure? I also think her original tweet calling the woman a "trolly dolley" way more offensive to women and working class people and this whole thing reads less like feminism and more like "don't you know who I am!".

Dh says if you go to school for 8 years it's the least you can expect and this is the same as me getting offended when people instist on calling me miss after I have corrected them to Ms.* So who's right?

www.indy100.com/article/doctor-medicine-calls-out-airline-qantas-everyday-sexism-controversy-reaction-twitter-8525826

*For the record, I'd have no issue whatsoever if someone called me Miss in the rush instead of Ms in this situation which is again why it feels less about feminism than about academic credentials.

Errol I'd not go down that route either as it's even more complicated - some people have a string of letters after their name and so even more opportunity to get shirty if someone gets it wrong!

No - you can put relevant letters on your card, email footer, letter signoff, LinkedIn profile etc but no-one uses any them when corresponding with you or referring to you (And obviously not in conversation).

Letters after the name is a bit American isn't it?

I'm also trying to remember that Yes Minister skit...

To be fair my educated, intelligent air hostess friend calls herself and her colleagues trolley dollies. Not something I'd say to her though!

Question for me is if say a male colleague went through the gate before her and did get called Dr. Then it would feel quite pointed wouldn't it? Suspect it could be a build up of similar incidents more than annoyance at this particular one which does seem a bit petty.

I did register as Dr at work as my qualification is relevant, for some reason their system keeps calling me Doctor Kind which feels all wrong.

I also think letters after name is a bit american and it's hierarchy again!

I raise an eyebrow at poeple who list their minor qualifications after their names on linked in for eg. But who decides where the cut off point is? And then it's back to different societies different rules etc etc and people not knowng what teh "done thing" is.

I feel like, if I have a certain award or wualificaiton, why do people need to know abotu it in situations where it's not relevant to anything?

These are just my personal views though I know a lot of people are attached to titles / letters and so on.

I'm a flight attendant.

We do not actually check names as such, or titles. We check for date, flight number and destination.

The name is a nicety to help our customers feel more welcome.

The suggestion that a man would be called by the title and a woman wouldn't is just the most ridiculous thing that I have ever heard.

We have over 300 people through the doors and we have to check every single boarding pass- does this woman really believe we have time to check everyone's names and titles with the time constraints that we get?

Boarding is for safety and security. The niceties come after.

As for the comment "she looked at my boarding pass, looked at me, looked at the boarding pass and then called me miss" they were probably just checking the information, sometimes we can all be guilty of not taking in information properly when you have looked at 300 of the damn things already during boarding!

This is just a classic example of a woman thinking she is far superior to others because she has the title of DR, Seems to me as if she would use any excuse to spoil for an argument or take offence to something.

And for the record, I have a university degree in Psychology and many, many of my colleagues who I work with also do.

This woman claims to be a feminist when actually she has just showed herself not to be at all with her complaining and it is clear to see that she thinks that she is better than everyone else.

As for the comment "she looked at my boarding pass, looked at me, looked at the boarding pass and then called me miss" they were probably just checking the information, sometimes we can all be guilty of not taking in information properly when you have looked at 300 of the damn things already during boarding

Look, I do get this. BUT at the same time, as per examples above, women with PhDs and who are rightfully known as Dr have been treated in exactly that way (in other contexts) when men haven't.

I'm with "dr mummy" upthread, when I have mine (one day...) I will be using it to death

Though I am curious where a doctorate in biological science ranks and if they are automatically "less allowed" to use it than a medical doctor. In the imaginary scenario of a contagious illness in flight, does a rheumatologist automatically have more knowledge than someone who has extensively studied and made a career in virology?
The comparison given is always someone with a doctorate in something like history who is apparently "pretending" they are as high up the rank as a medical doctor. Who made up this rank anyway? It's nonsense.

Another thing I was wondering from this thread, admittedly after reading ineeds post - are those who think using dr when it "isn't relevant" is wanky, largely men (obviously I know there are women who agree (on here) too, but are they outnumbered by men? Though I don't imagine there are official stats on perceived wankiness! )?
Are they men who aren't used to being judged on their marital status with miss/mrs/ms?

In fact, I've had situations where I've handed over my credit card (which has my title) and had that exact same reaction - look at the card and me and back again...

"Look, I do get this. BUT at the same time, as per examples above, women with PhDs and who are rightfully known as Dr have been treated in exactly that way (in other contexts) when men haven't."

Being introduced at a professional conference is a very different situation to an airline steward who is dealing with 1000s of people every day though.

"Who made up this rank anyway? It's nonsense."
Yes - this.

Get rid of them all. There is no need in most situations for anyone to be aware you are a dr of history, dr of medicine, priest or whatever.

It's just hierarchy= that's all.

In a situaiton where a dr of history, dr or medicine or priest is needed they can be asked for. Which is what happens in the plane examples anyway. (And all the women esp women who aren't white are sent away anyway).

I'm normally in favour of abolishing herarchies, but I know quite a few women with PhDs who have had the same kinds of experiences mentioned earlier: being introduced by their first name alongside male colleagues whose titles are included in the introduction etc. So I see why female academics seek precisely the same level of respect given to their male colleagues.

I have no doubt that looking at 300 boarding passes in a matter of minutes is stressful and challenging. But if you're going to address someone as Title Surname, and you're looking at the boarding pass anyway because you need to see what the surname is, you might as well check you've got the title right. Otherwise why use titles at all?

I have no doubt that looking at 300 boarding passes in a matter of minutes is stressful and challenging. But if you're going to address someone as Title Surname, and you're looking at the boarding pass anyway because you need to see what the surname is, you might as well check you've got the title right. Otherwise why use titles at all

Yeah look I agree. Oddly, I have my banking details in the form of my title because otherwise, I would have been 'Miss'. Long story - but I wasn't allowed Ms for an account and then after I got my PhD and walked into the bank to open my credit card and saw the same woman who would not allow me 'Ms' I went for Dr. I had a staff card at the time and used this as proof (and the bank was the main one that anyone from the university used). To this end, I book my flights using this card and to keep things consistent I use my professional title. But if I'd have been allowed 'Ms' in the first place maybe I wouldn't. As said above, I've had the 'double look' when I've used my credit card before AND seen non-'doctored' men promoted to Dr when I've been called by my first name.

Ridiculous. I’ve been called Dr BigBlue, Mrs BigBlue, Miss BigBlue, Mrs DHname, Mrs DCname... as long as the person is polite and helpful I don’t see the point in getting sniffy about it. If it bothers you or causes a problem then just politely correct the mistake. It isn’t sexism.

The only time I’ve ever objected was when we made a bank appointment as Mr DHname and Dr BigBlue, and the bank employee persisted in calling DH “Dr” even though it was obvious I’m female and therefore was not the “Mr”.

Sounds like classism on behalf of the doctor.

Nobody is obliged to address you by an academic title unless they work under you. Clearly that's what she thought of the 'trolley dolly'.

It's another middle class woman using a public platform to put down someone she thinks owes her deference. This is the same pronoun shit TRAs pull all the time.

Letters after the name is a bit American isn't it?

That doesn't necessarily make it a bad idea!

and it's hierarchy again!

I disagree; in the case of earned qualifications and membership of professional bodies, the letters may be useful or even vital information, in contexts where they are relevant.

'Dr' on a boarding card is irrelevant, or even unhelpful unless you're a medic with skills which could be useful in an onboard emergency. MB or whatever it is on your professional letterhead isn't.

"Letters after the name is a bit American isn't it?"

"That doesn't necessarily make it a bad idea!"

"and it's hierarchy again!"

If I was gonna be picky, I'd say that the British way being better vs the American way is suggesting another hierarchy...

Why do people use titles out of work? Do they expect friends and family to use them?

Does having a qualification make your backside a different shape so you need a special seat?

I'm sure that there are lots of lovely doctors out there but most of them I have met were arrogant pricks.

The article totally made it sound like she said trolley dolly, wonder why they did that

I did spot that, wondered if I should mention it and couldn't be bothered. Dr O'D was happy to leave it as it stood.

On another note in the olden days before social media O'Dwyer could just have said to the flight attendant "it's Dr actually " and got an apology there and then.

I would still take this approach. I wonder why Dr O'Dwyer didn't

Because Dr O'Dwyer would have to engage with another (lowly) person and would miss out on revelling in this slight to her dignity. Perhaps despite the PhD she isn't as bright as she thinks she is.

Why do people use titles out of work? Do they expect friends and family to use them

Do people expect friends and family to use any title - Miss, Mrs etc? I expect Dr or Ms. I am neither 'Miss' nor 'Mrs'.

I insist on my family underlings addressing me as The Doctor.

There seem to be a few posters on this thread with some noses out of joint. A bit sad on a feminist board where we should be proud of our achievements. I wonder if the same snarkiness would be in place for women who insisted on being called 'Mrs', and I've met a few of them!

On another note, in the olden days before social media Dr O’Dwyer would have made the original remark to her friends or colleagues and not much more would have been thought of it
That is still what she shuold hae done- it's not obligatory to put your every thought on socila media.

I'm with you OP, it was likely and easily made mistake.

I'm a Dr, not a medical one, and I'll be one of the 'twats' who admits I use it outside work as I like it.

BUT I don't get offended when people use and assume I'm a Mrs, or even when people use Mrs DH's name as they assume I must have taken my husband's name.(I haven't)

It's a bit annoying at the most, but i totally understand that people make assumptions/rapid decisions based on norms, and not everyone has the time to have taken my academic qualifications, marital status, and feminist leanings into account when addressing me in a passing context.

By MIL insisted on being called "Mrs" -

I'm not sure what you mean though?

I don't like titles full stop they are all about hierarchy and the female ones denoting our place in the social hierarchy.

I've been consistent on this all through the thread -

Of course I don't know who you are talking to!

If someone was wittering on about a flight attendant calling them Ms instead of Mrs my response would be the same. If it bothered them that much all that was required was a brief " it's Mrs actually".

To compare this tiny, hurried interaction to being the same as not getting the full and correct title when being introduced at a conference is nonsense.

The poster who actually is a flight attendant,weddingplanner123 is spot on.

Actually when you work inn a context where most/everyone is a Dr, it would be even more wanky to insist on your title being used there ime.

You are just known and addressed by your name

Only necessary when publishing