Karen White case - how MN can help build political pressure for change

[PotsofJam]

Jess Phillips MP has commented on the Karen White case, saying anyone convicted of VAWG should be excluded from the women’s prison estate.

See her tweet here:
twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1038350610163265537?s=21
This could be the start of a media-political process. Jess has raised a question here. Do other MPs agree with her? Does the Government agree?
Thanks to the wonder of Twitter, email and the rest, you can help make them answer that question.
So if you’re on Twitter and have some time to spare this weekend, why not send Jess’s tweet to some MPs and ask:

Do you agree with the chair of the All Party Parliamentary Group on Domestic Violence that prison service rules should be changed to exclude all VAWG offenders from the women’s estate, no matter what gender they identify as?

Holy I'm reminded of a quote often attributed to Churchill.

'If you are going through hell, keep on going'

from the Sunday Times article above by Andrew Gilligan:

'Trans offender seeks to wipe crimes as a man from record'
(extract)
A transgender offender is seeking to delete from her record two crimes that could only have been committed by a man.

“I do not wish my gender history to be more widely known and do not wish to disclose my trans status to employers,” the woman, who asked to be identified only as Helen, said. She is to launch a judicial review to remove two convictions for “importuning as a man” when she worked at a Soho “clip joint” in the 1970s and 1980s.

A right to removal, if established, could cover rape, another crime that can legally be committed only by a person with a penis.

Trans people with a gender recognition certificate are legally entitled to keep their birth gender secret.

Helen’s barrister, Claire McCann, said disclosure of offences that revealed Helen’s birth gender in criminal record checks was “severe and discriminatory interference with Helen’s right to respect for her private life”. (continues)

Claire McCann provided legal guidance at the WEP re the GRA,
Michelle Brewer had initially been due to partner her on the panel. Michelle Brewer was a co-founder of TELI (Trans Equality Legal Initiave) with Tara Hewitt and Jess Bradley.

relevent threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3356182-who-s-going-to-the-wep-conference-this-weekend-fancy-a-thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3325882-WEP-conference-questions-for-panel-of-trans-rights-advocating-barristers

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3318961-Ultimate-betrayal-by-the-WEP

What about a biologically female person who identifies as male, is sent to prison and insists on being placed in a male prison?

How does that work?

What about a biologically female person who identifies as male, is sent to prison and insists on being placed in a male prison?

It wouldn't be possible due to risk.

Francis Crook Howard Reform commented on this earlier this year in Mail on Sunday article:

"Ms Crook, executive director of the Howard League for Penal Reform, added: ‘These men are not transitioning because they like women and want to be a woman, but in order to exert a new kind of control and dominance over women, a sort of infiltration.

‘Moreover, the process is inherently discriminatory. A woman identifying as a man could not be transferred to a man’s jail because placing a person with female attributes into a prison to live with 1,000 men, all using communal showers and living areas, would put them in serious danger.’ (continues)

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5798945/Trans-women-convicted-men-attack-vulnerable-inmates.html

*What about a biologically female person who identifies as male, is sent to prison and insists on being placed in a male prison?

It wouldn't be possible due to risk.

It's the law though, right?

Wouldn't they be forced to accommodate a transman? With security. A bodyguard maybe. What if it were two transmen? Two bodyguards?

Or let them get attacked?

Where are the documents stating what will happen?

Utter mess.

OMFG.

White had abused and/or raped women at:

a women's jail
a mixed sex psychiatric ward
a bail hostel

He also had a conviction for abuse of a child. And yet, even after raping in a bail hostel and a mixed sex psychiatric ward and abusing a child, he was placed into not just a women's prison but a women's prison containing a mother and baby unit.

Lang where are these details from?

It is in The Times article, R0wan.

Times link

"Briscoe, now a senior therapist at a charity, said Wood had a history of seeking access to mixed and women’s institutions to find and abuse vulnerable people. As well as the bail hostel and the prison, she said, police told her Wood had gained admission to a mixed psychiatric ward, where he had repeatedly raped a young woman patient suffering from Asperger’s syndrome".

I am genuinely lost for words lang.

I can only hope this case sparks an in depth review of how this happened. It’s horrific.

Bowlofbabelfish - from Gilligan's article it's not clear that there will be an enquiry:

Mark Fairhurst, acting general secretary of the Prison Officers’ Association, said the rapist’s placement among women prisoners was “disgraceful”, adding: “We would demand a full inquiry and we would expect disciplinary action to be taken against decision makers.”

A spokesman for the Prison Service said it “apologised sincerely for the mistakes that were made in this case”, but could not say whether an inquiry would be launched.

I'd love to hear what Sophie Walker et Al have to say about inviting a lawyer to speak at WEP who is actively arguing for transgender rapists to be able to hide their crimes because the rapist's right to privacy outweighs women's rights to safety and society's right to transparency of legal justice.

This is worse than I had even imagined.

There must be consequences for this.

This thread was started by someone who came onto Mumsnet for the purpose of posting it only.

S/he doesn't appear to be aware that MN was spearheading this cause.

In fact, s/he sounds like someone campaigning to raise the profile of Jess P.

Personally, I trust Fairplay4Women and WPUK and the rest to take this "truth to power" far more than JP. I'm not interested in salvaging politician's careers, let alone raising their profile.

Personally, I trust Fairplay4Women and WPUK and the rest to take this "truth to power" far more than JP. I'm not interested in salvaging politician's careers, let alone raising their profile.

Hear bloody hear.

Yes 👏 👏 Jess can do one after simpering at that woke bro "educating" women about why we should shut up.

I'd love to hear what Sophie Walker et Al have to say about inviting a lawyer to speak at WEP who is actively arguing for transgender rapists to be able to hide their crimes because the rapist's right to privacy outweighs women's rights to safety and society's right to transparency of legal justice.

THIS

Lang Cleg beat me to it with the heat hear

Jess and your simpering minions if you’re lurking 🖕 I know who’s got women’s backs and it isn’t you.

Well Jess’s profile has certainly been raised by this thread, although possibly not in the way intended.
After reading those tweets I won’t even sympathise when she ends up on Terfblocker, as she surely will.

THanks Popchyk

"police told her Wood had gained admission to a mixed psychiatric ward, where he had repeatedly raped a young woman patient suffering from Asperger’s syndrome".

Yesterday Tara Hewitt (NHS diversity consultant) gave a workshop at the transgender conference on trans and mental health.
from current
Dr Adrian Harrop thread

Tara Hewitt was the Diversity officer for Manchester UHSM hospital, also co-founder for TELI (with Jess Bradley & Michelle Brewer)

Tara Hewitt ammended the same sex ward policy at UHSM to include a transgender policy, in short to gender self-id on wards & facilities.

January 2018 'Lancaster mum with “fear of men” locked on hospital ward with transgender patient'
(extract)
"A Lancaster mum whose bi-polar disorder left her believing men were conspiring to kill her said she was left terrified when she was locked on a women’s psychiatric ward with an “extremely male-bodied” transgender patient. Philippa Molloy, 42, said she was “genuinely, absolutely terrified” because she had suffered a relapse in her condition that made her irrationally terrified of men – including her own husband."

www.lancasterguardian.co.uk/news/lancaster-mum-with-fear-of-men-locked-on-hospital-ward-with-transgender-patient-1-8963648

Relevent recent thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3297578-NHS-confuse-sex-and-gender-on-advice-about-The-Mental-Health-Act

Previous workshop for HCPs by Tara Hewitt 'Trans people and Cancer' in which she also describes her work across many NHS trusts with prisons, social care etc. Describes how trans is an umbrella term, nothing to do with surgery etc includes cross-dressers who are fetishistic.

This is worse than I had even imagined.

There must be consequences for this.

This ^^

I’m staggered. There must be an enquiry on this - it’s so important. A rapist with previous form for accessing mixed spaces with vulnerable women and child rape is allowed to self ID and placed in a women’s prison that contains a mother and baby unit.

The inquiry needs to happen and it needs to look at WHY this was allowed. Until people are held accountable for decisions like this then this will keep happening.

"At the time, Wood was out of prison on licence after serving part of an 18-month sentence for abusing a primary school child. He was staying at the Birch Lane probation hostel in Manchester, where Briscoe was a staff member. The rape victim was visiting one of the other offenders in the hostel."

Manchester again!

Imagine the costs of individual basis. Sex segregation and special unit or wing for trans. That would in the long run be the cheapest option.

I think it is worth asking the question if the law said they had to stay in male prisons and could not wipe previous criminal record. How many would still do it?

How many transwomen would there be if women didn't have the vote, couldn't get degrees and most of us didn't work, or did factory jobs with significantly less pay (still pay gap)didn't have female only spaces, rape crisis, female sports, hostels etc, etc

Sorry, Im a bit behind on the discussion, thinking about earlier posts.

How many transwomen would there be if women didn't have the vote, couldn't get degrees and most of us didn't work, or did factory jobs with significantly less pay (still pay gap)didn't have female only spaces, rape crisis, female sports, hostels etc, etc

Good bloody point.

And our survey said... a big fat zero.