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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

First there was Jess Bradley, then the Challenors, now Edward Lord...

315 replies

PimmsnLemonade · 01/09/2018 15:10

No direct accusations against Edward Lord (the 'non-binary' freemason who is trying to remove single-sex spaces in London) but here he is describing as a "hero" a man who was a member of the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) and is a continuing "advocate" for paedophiles:

twitter.com/edwardlord/status/958632082762321922

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/10948796/Paedophilia-is-natural-and-normal-for-males.html

OP posts:
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ErrolTheDragon · 01/09/2018 16:36

We’re not allowed to make any links between people who want to dismantle sex based protections for women and girls, and paedophilia.

Lord seems to have set up that link in the tweet in the OP. Is there any rule against citing what people have themselves said?

happydappy2 · 01/09/2018 16:40

The language we are supposed to use has been cleverly manipulated-transsexual is not cool-transgender much more palatable-trans kids is the cherry on top-neatly deflecting attention away from more dubious adult male behaviour. This is why women can see the danger so clearly

LangCleg · 01/09/2018 16:45

Saving thread.

Fallingirl · 01/09/2018 16:47

In the early days, queer theory was not a men’s rights vehicle as it is now. It started out as a move away from rigid thinking in terms of binaries. That all social categories were neat and bounded and there were no overlaps between good/bad, gay/straight, black/white etc. Butlers theory of performativity in relation to gender was, in my opinion, very useful, in that it allowed us to not see gender as innate, but socially constructed and learned through the reiterating the practices associated with masculity and femininity respectively. In the earler days of trans advocacy, she was eschewed by trans advocates, for the denial of girl and boy brains.

I still find the concept of performativity useful, particularly in relation to masculinity and TRA behaviour. In my view, if we look at trans arguments and demands through a ‘performativity lense, this shows a performance of male entitlement. I am not saying no woman or girl ever acts entitled to anything, but I am saying that a lot of transwomen are performing an aspect of masculinity through their claims to entitlement to women’s rights.

I think queer throry has developed in a very dangerous direction, and it is now being used in a way that completely ignores power structures and inequalities, as TRA’s by use of neo-queer theory, identify as the most oppresseed group ever. The concept of performativity never implied power structures had become obsolote, butarther gave us a tool for analysing how they are played out in practice, on micro levels of how men, women, boys, girls interact with each other, and meso levels of how institutions interact with people, and macro levels of states policies etc. It is a great shame that a useful tool for analysis has been highjacked to pretend power structures no longer exist, and obfuscate any talk of structural inequality and it’s effect on women and children.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 01/09/2018 16:51

And to elevate internal / subjective feelings over observable recognised facts.

But only sometimes (transrace gets you a kicking)

Mrbatmun · 01/09/2018 16:58

Whaaaaaaaaat?

According to that article Ken Plummer said

'Paedophiles are told they are the seducers and rapists of children; they know their experiences are often loving and tender ones. They are told that children are pure and innocent, devoid of sexuality; they know both from their own experiences of childhood and from the children they meet that this is not the case.”

And Edward Lord is calling him a hero? Wtf?

LemonJello · 01/09/2018 17:00

And he’s not even deleting the tweet. That’s where we are now.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 01/09/2018 17:05

The links around his partner's work are erm interesting as well.

People who want "Intergenerational" sexual relationships are apparently teh most oppressed in a list of oppressed sexualities, because society is sort of prudish and victorian.

Bowlofbabelfish · 01/09/2018 17:09

Darker and darker. Are our resident journo lurkers watching? An exposé on this tangled web of horror is Pulitzer winning stuff. Be brave.

Potplant2 · 01/09/2018 17:10

In the early days, queer theory was not a men’s rights vehicle as it is now. It started out as a move away from rigid thinking in terms of binaries. That all social categories were neat and bounded and there were no overlaps between good/bad, gay/straight, black/white etc. Butlers theory of performativity in relation to gender was, in my opinion, very useful, in that it allowed us to not see gender as innate, but socially constructed and learned through the reiterating the practices associated with masculity and femininity respectively.

I’ll give you the repetitive performance bit of it, but Butler certainly wasn’t the first to point out that gender isn’t innate. Saying gender is something we repeatedly and perfomatively do isn’t much if anything of a step on from saying that gender is socially constructed, as far as I can see.

I first read Butler as a postgrad student in the late 90s (Gender Trouble) and remember being outraged at her inability to account for the real, sex-based oppression of women, and at the immorality of the Foucault-inspired idea that power is neutral and merely negotiated in society, rather than being the cause of oppression for certain classes of people, notably women. A lovely gay male friend of mine told me I was wrong and explained why and for years I followed that explanation though still feeling uneasy. Recently I’ve decided my first instincts were entirely correct.

ToeToToe · 01/09/2018 17:10

I've just seen this link on twitter.

Apparently, we're not allowed to imply that trans-activism has been hijacked by those that would seek to normalise sexual relationships with children - aka paedophiles - and yet these people keep proving it over and over.

It's the PIE all over again, and people are so scared of being called bigots, no one's stopping it. Safeguards for children are being torn up all around us.

ToeToToe · 01/09/2018 17:13

Oh, and once they've allowed children to legally change their gender - as an awful lot of TRAs are campaigning for - once you've argued that a child under 16 is competent and mature enough to transition to the opposite sex, and be legally recognised as that sex, then it's just a short step to arguing that children are mature enough to consent to sex.

kesstrel · 01/09/2018 17:16

I still find the concept of performativity useful, particularly in relation to masculinity and TRA behaviour. In my view, if we look at trans arguments and demands through a ‘performativity lense, this shows a performance of male entitlement.

I admit to knowing little about this subject, but to my mind the word "peformance" here is misleading. To the lay mind, at least, 'performance' suggests something artificial, optional, 'put on'. Whereas IMO, most TRAs are behaving in an entitled way because they actually believe they are entitled, and because their culture facilitates this belief. Am I misinterpreting this?

BiologyIsReal · 01/09/2018 17:19

I really don't understand why people are so scared of being called bigots. If it is bigoted to stand up for women and children's rights I am quite happy to be called a bigot.

If all us 'bigots' stood together and stand "so what" there would be nowhere for the Edward Lords of the world to go...seeing as it is apparently a crime worse than murder or strangling kittens to be a bigot.

I am so fed up with these pervey old creeps. They and their queer theory can fuck off.

kesstrel · 01/09/2018 17:21

I first read Butler as a postgrad student in the late 90s (Gender Trouble) and remember being outraged at her inability to account for the real, sex-based oppression of women, and at the immorality of the Foucault-inspired idea that power is neutral and merely negotiated in society,

Whenever I try to read an academic feminist paper I find they all seem to cite Foucault and Derrida as if these two men's writing are Holy Writ. When did feminist academics start taking an uncritical approach to specious dogma promulgated by men? It was clearly after the Women's Studies courses I did in the 70s!

ToeToToe · 01/09/2018 17:25

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/10653950/We-on-the-Left-lacked-the-courage-to-be-branded-homophobic-so-we-just-ignored-it.-I-wish-I-hadnt.html

Trans-activists have now got Labour, Libdems, Green Party singing their tune. Plus SNP, Plaid, and even the Women's Equality Party. Plus (probably) the conservatives.

Plus NSPCC.

History repeats itself.

ToeToToe · 01/09/2018 17:30

twitter.com/sargesalute/status/1035915181799424000

No I couldn't watch to the end either.

This person whose video has been tweeted by Anne Ruzylo, is one of the twitterers fervantly tweeting and plotting to take away Mumsnet's advertising revenue.

This is a men's sexual rights movement - and so they can't have these pesky mothers poking their noses in, and you know, caring about the boundaries of women and children.

LemonJello · 01/09/2018 17:38

Dismantling sex based protections for women and girls while calling an advocate for paedophilic a hero ✅

Asking the leading child protection charity questions regarding the safeguarding of children ❌

Iused2BanOptimist · 01/09/2018 17:39

A spokesman for Essex University ....

cited the university’s charter which gave academic staff “freedom within the law to put forward controversial and unpopular opinions without placing themselves in jeopardy”.

Funny how academics who query things like ROGD , whether sex is assigned at birth or whether women can have a penis are likely to be shouted down, bullies, disciplined etc

LemonJello · 01/09/2018 17:41

And probably:

Drawing attention to the fact that a person who is trying to dismantle sex based protections for women and girls is calling an advocate for paedophilic a hero ❌

Mrbatmun · 01/09/2018 17:42

Wow, what a stunning and brave woman in that video...... Stunning and brave.

ErrolTheDragon · 01/09/2018 17:45
  • This person whose video has been tweeted by Anne Ruzylo, is one of the twitterers fervantly tweeting and plotting to take away Mumsnet's advertising revenue.

Does MNHQ know this?

Datun · 01/09/2018 17:49

.

Cascade220 · 01/09/2018 17:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cascade220 · 01/09/2018 17:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.