'Well-behaved' girls 'socialising' 'challenging' boys at primary school

[Polynerd]

I just saw a casual mention on Twitter of the phenomenon of well-behaved girls being sat next to challenging boys to 'socialise' them. I was totally shocked because I suddenly realised that my youngest (going into Y2) has mentioned to me that this had happened to her. Is this something that happens regularly? Should I be talking to next year's teacher about this? I don't want my six-year-old daughter thinking it is her responsibility to make a load of six-year-old boys conform to classroom behavioural standards.

This has happened for years hasn’t it?
I always had the “naughty boy” of the class sat next to me because I was well-behaved and hard working. It impacted my education until my mother read the school the riot act (must have been around 1990 - when I was 7/8) and asking why I was responsible for his behaviour. They basically told her to sod off but I didn’t find myself sitting next to “challenging” students from then on out.

My maths teacher tried it at senior school in about 1999. I told her which career I wanted as an adult and that I needed a top grade and if the “challenging” boy she was going to sit next to me (she expected me to do my work, get him to do his and shut him up) hampered my grades I would hold her personally responsible. I got into a lot of trouble for being so outspoken. I’m glad I did it but I shouldn’t have had to.

Never happened to me, but I am 10 years older than you. Older children have never reported this either. However youngest is old for year and particularly conscientious, so a prime target for this sort of thing. Am definitely going to speak to teacher but will try to softly, softly it at first as have not met her yet.

I honestly don't know what other options a teacher has these days. Exclusion is frowned upon and costs the LA extra money. Teachers I know have all been threatened by feral parents, and attacked by their children. I totally agree this policy is unfair but without the right to refuse service (education in this instance) the power sits entirely with the consumer. I'm not saying exclusion is the best answer, I'm not even suggesting an answer but using a little girl as an unpaid classroom assistant definitely isn't the right answer

I've done some work with young offenders. Bright, lively PITA young men. They learn excellently. In small groups with skilled teachers.

Big classes and not enough teachers means they still have to be taught but can't be. Girls are the collateral damage.

Mmmm. So if I kick up a fuss about DD3 it will just push the problem onto another girl with a less bolshie parent?

I don't think it is using them as unpaid classroom assistants.
I am a teacher. It depends on the behaviour. Children who are deliberately disruptive I would separate off completely, but if it's children who are easily distracted i might sit them with a more focussed group. Generally because there will be fewer distractions. I am always very clear though that it is my job to discipline and teach and not the children's. Not all girls are quiet and well behaved in class though. This year my most focussed group were four boys. They sat down quietly and got on. My most disruptive pupil was a girl.
In group work it is often mixed. From a classroom management point of view it's very difficult to manage a group who are all distracted, interrupting, not following instructions, than it is to manage a group where one child is doing that. If it's just one, most teachers will probably give them a chance, warn them and then sanction.

Common practice sixty years ago.

It could be a nice way of saying they're separating them from disruptive friends.

This happened to me, but I was also asked to help them with their work. As it turns out I went on become really good at teaching so it played to my strengths and I am a kind person so it didn't bother me, but as a girl/woman, it definitely skewed my view as aged 8-11 I was a bit flattered, but also used and it definitely played a part in shaping me.

I think I am similar age to you OP.

This happened to a girl in my son's class last year. There was a boy with behavioral challenges - biting, pushing, hitting etc - that the teacher was struggling to manage and she put him sitting next to this little girl, L, who was a very sweet, caring type. Sadly, by the end of the year, the boy had become very obsessed with L and was following her around and hitting her and bothering her. Her parents finally complained and then the teacher put the next quietest, most complacent girl sitting next to him, which really upset that girl too.

It's so infuriating that male violence becomes the responsibility of girls so early on in life. This little girl, L, was becoming increasingly upset at her 'failure' to manage the boy's behaviour and it was very stressful for her.

My suggestion to the teacher was that she instead put the tallest, biggest boy in the class next to this kid to keep him in line! My son's friend had a natural leader personality and was taller and stronger and I think he would have done a better job of managing the situation than a girl who has been socialised to be nice and put up with shit.

This has happened for years, hasn’t it? I certainly remember it happening at school 20+ years ago. And not just a female issue - my smart, well-behaved boys are sat next to challenging children of both sexes because they are good role models and capable of helping a struggling child to understand a new idea.

This goes on into the workplace. A friend of mine, younger than me, in her thirties, was recently put on a project with a bloke who is real pain. He's rude and aggressive in manner, belittles everyone else's work, several complaints to HR about him already. Her employer actually told her 'It's because you have such good people skills, you're the only one who can manage him', etc.

Result being that she ended up putting in a complaint to HR because he was rude to her as well. She's actually been asking herself how she should have managed the situation, when obviously it's the employer's responsibility to do that, not palm him off on compliant younger women because other people won't work with him any more.

Yes. I think girls are in danger of being used in this way, to their detriment. But not always girls

I think we have to be aware that girls are still given the message that being kind and self-sacrificing is what gets them the most kudos in life - where boys are not given this message. I continually try to address this.

This certainly happened to me 30 rs ago. It's common practise. I'm a teacher and I understand the need to separate unfocused children. I think the problem is if the girl starts to feel the boy's behaviour is her responsibility.

This also happened to me, repeatedly, until I felt I had to tell my mother. She went in and discussed it somewhat forcefully with the teacher. The worst part; the teacher had switched all our seats about as a class exercise and asked me, in front of the whole class, if I minded sitting next to dickheads 1 & 2. I had to say yes, obviously. I taught for a while and was very conscious of avoiding this, but I taught secondary and I suspect it was easier to achieve than in primary.

Ugh is this really still happening? It never worked in my day so I'm surprised it's still being done and I would not be happy with anyone trying to encourage my DD to take responsibility for male violence.

Happened to me 40 years go at primary and has haopensd to my son and dsughter. In fact my son had it worse... His year group were reshuffled as they went in to ks2 and while most of his friends went into one class he went into the other because he was one boy they could trust not to mess around with a particularly naughty boy. The teacher told me this was the reason and I was of course furious but the damage was done. I was supposed to feel flattered apparently.

Oh god, now I realise why I was always sat with the good boys at school, I thought they asked for me there. This had been done for years and years and it is a good way of calming a classroom if children are mixed up that way, surely.

This happened to me 20 years ago and I’m still annoyed about it. My first experience of exams was an absolute joke. Half a class of top set girls put in with bottom set, disruptive and antisocial boys. We were all nervously excited for our exams and had prepared carefully. The buffoons talked, threw things and generally disrupted everything. The message was clear that our education was less important than our role in placating this bunch of primitive males.

I have to say- it always happened to ds too.
I could always anticipate who they’d put him next to...
I’d complain if she feels strongly.

This has happened to both me and my friend around 15 years ago at school. We always giggle at how it made my friend's behaviour worse and not the boy's better 😂 I personally hated it. I felt intimidated by the bad behaviour, worried it reflected badly on me & just basically spent lessons willing the kid to shut up. Another one I was placed with just persistently used to copy my work, which then got my marks lowered when the teacher realised. I remember my Dad going off on one at the teacher saying it's not my responsibility as a 12 year old to tell this kid to f* off. I did try and was always so upset when he'd take my book but I can see my dad was right, why should that have been my worry?

This never happened to me because at my school we had separate desks from age 8, and I am so, so grateful for that. It was also before the fad for constant "group work" came in. There is no good evidence that group work is a good way of teaching/learning (except in small doses) and plenty of evidence to suggest that it is not.

Sitting children around tables so that some of them inevitably have their backs facing the teacher has never been shown to be good practice, and in high-performing countries like Finland it is not done. It is a recipe for facilitating disruption and bullying, and it is shocking IMO that teachers in primary schools are being forced to do this even when they don't want to.

I’m a teacher and mixed-ability (and mixed-behaviour) pairings are very common. Thinking about my class now and gender isn’t really a factor though. I have some well behaved boys sat next to more challenging girls. The important thing is to move children around over the year so no one child is left in a challenging pairing for too long. And obviously if they’re having to put up with unacceptable behaviour you step in. I’ll be thinking about this across the year though!

DS1 teacher told me that they place certain children next to him for this exact reason, although I can’t remember how they phrased it.

On the flip side, that probably means my ds2 who is easily distracted, is more likely to be sat with a more focused group who will ignore him.