'Well-behaved' girls 'socialising' 'challenging' boys at primary school

[Polynerd]

I just saw a casual mention on Twitter of the phenomenon of well-behaved girls being sat next to challenging boys to 'socialise' them. I was totally shocked because I suddenly realised that my youngest (going into Y2) has mentioned to me that this had happened to her. Is this something that happens regularly? Should I be talking to next year's teacher about this? I don't want my six-year-old daughter thinking it is her responsibility to make a load of six-year-old boys conform to classroom behavioural standards.

I agree!!!! Annoys me that boys always presumed to be the problem when girls are far more devious!!!!

Of course they notice. Or the kid wouldn't have been classes as disruptive and moved in the first place. And these children you think should change who they are are picked precisely because of the very natures of their personality you say they should be changing. You cant use these kids to your advantage then blame it all on them for not speaking up. So as I said. When all these quiet kids start speaking up what do the teachers do then and why can't it be implemented from the beginning.

No. The disruptive child is noticed because of the obvious disruption otherwise they wouldn't have been moved next to a less disruptive child. A child quietly distracting or hitting/kicking another isn't always obvious. Hence why being more vocal about what is happening is beneficial to the child being hurt.

Again, I'm still wondering what it is you think teachers should be doing first that would solve the problem and yet use no time, money or resources that they just can't be arsed to do in the first place.

Dealing with the behaviour. They seem to be able to notice no tie in a sea of 400 plus children in a hall. I don't believe they can't see a kid misbehaving sorry.

@luckymumny I agree!!!! Annoys me that boys always presumed to be the problem when girls are far more devious!!!!

When the girls start beating me up or groping my vulva, I'll regard them as being as bad as the boys.

Because, if you read the thread title and OP, what is being discussed is the situations where well-behaved girls appear to be used to address the behaviour of challenging boys.

Feel free to start your own thread about well-behaved boys being used to address the behaviour of devious girls. And now that extends into real life beyond the primary classroom. Somehow, though I’m happy to be proved wrong, you won’t get as many responses. But well done with your attempt at NAMALT.

arranfan and YY it's victim-blaming and deeply unreasonable to expect kids to navigate this.

Giles you obviously believe teachers are made of eyes with x-ray vision and have magic powers to solve all problems and yet they choose to ignore violent behaviour for mysterious reasons of their own. I can see why you would find these situations frustrating.

No I just believe teachers are people and as such some are fab. Some go above and beyond. Some get to know their class and help every single one of them. And some will be rude or lazy or shouty or knowingly turn a blind eye to things that would make their life difficult. And everything in between.

There are plenty if people here with direct experience of these methods and how they fail both parties.

Using girls as a tool to pacify disruptive boys is forcing girls to perform unpaid emotional labour at a very early age. This conditions girls to do unpaid emotional labour for life.

When the girl is forced to sit next to a boy who kicks her, tries to touch her indecently, shoves her in the middle of writing so that her pencil is jolted and writing is disrupted, and otherwise infringes upon her body and mind, this is a state-sanctioned, teacher-imposed violation of her boundaries. How is she supposed to learn boundaries and learn to trust her intuition about a "wrong'un" to steer clear of dangerous men if she is forced to sit next to a boundary-violating boy?

Teachers, you are the ones who are paid and trained to do the job. You do your job without enslaving* girls to do it for you.

• What else do you called forced, unpaid emotional labour?

And some of those really fab teachers who go above and beyond have never really been in truely challenging situations. Difficult maybe but not truely challenging. It's easy to be all bells and whistles with the wind behind you. Some of the crap ones are actually just drowning, knowing everyone thinks they are shitty when in fact they are in an impossible situation.

The reason this situation exists has very little to do with the quality of the teacher, though obviously it contributes, and almost entirely to do with a chronically underfunded service, scarce support, no back up and a constant message that if you can't handle what is in front of you, it's your fault. You are a failure. No matter how extreme the situation.

My main point being that this won't end if we do not pin point the root cause of the problem. Scapegoating teachers with few other options won't create the solution .

River as i said before I really dint think it’s girls been used to calm disruptive children.
It’s just the quieter ones, the ones that won’t make a fuss.
Both of mines have been ‘used’ like this. They are both boys.

It’s not an issue with NAMALT. More that it’s the sort of technique used by teachers, regardless of the sex of the pupils.
I do agree though thatbthe aortnif disruption we are talkingout is more likely to be coming form a boy.
The child with the calming influence can be a boy or a girl imo.

The shitty situation is also not the kids fault though is it.

And if an adult with years of training cabt cope then what on earth makes anyone think a young child. One who's still learning themselves, can succeed where every adult the other kid has met has failed?

Oh god this is happening to my daughter, right now.

I have not seen the pattern before. i just thought it was rotten luck that her reading partner/computer partner/deskmate was always a naughty boy.

I will keep a very very close eye on it now and challenge it if it happens again. wow. Thanks for the information.

I’ve found my Dd is often the target of the problem student. At first I thought it was dumb luck, then I realized it is because the teacher seats her next to those students. They don’t say anything, they just put the well-behaved smart girl next to the troublemaker. Eventually there will be an incident that is significant enough that we can insist the particular student no longer be allowed on the same side of the classroom as mine, let alone seated side by side.

One year it was hair pulling that got excused away because of special needs. It took my Dd getting hit with a lunchbox to get the situation dealt with.

Last year, the troublemaker took one of my dd’s Papers and covered it in swear words. Then he told the teacher she had done it. Thankfully the teacher knew better, and we were finally able to get him seated away from her for the remainder of the year.

My tolerance for inclusion and understanding for troubled kids has been tested to the point of breaking. Thankfully this year’s teacher is unconventional and I don’t think she will use this peer model technique.

Giles I'm not saying it's the child's fault though am I. I'm saying you aren't moving anywhere near a solution by blaming somebody who has few other options.

Again you seem to think there is a solution teachers just can't be arsed to use. What do you think this solution is?

I have not seen the pattern before. i just thought it was rotten luck that her reading partner/computer partner/deskmate was always a naughty boy.

My personal experience was decades ago. It's horrendous this is still happening but from what I've read about schools continuing to cover up sexual assault it's SAMO. On or off school property, the assault of pupils results in victim blaming and preferential treatment of the benighted offenders.

If my experience were repeated today, I have no confidence that schools would intervene to protect the casualty of the beating. Like me, they'd have to continue to share a classroom with those who had carried out what would be categorised as GBH had they been older.

How would I know what the solution is I'm not a teacher I havent when to university I haven't had training. But what do any if us do when we are faced with challenging behaviour ? We research on line. Join forums like this one. Get advice. Lokl for articles published about dealing with particular issues. There must be more ideas out there besides. Find a quiet kid.

The behaviour just needs to be dealt with as opposed to hidden. Because by picking that quiet child one who will carry on being kicked punched etc isn't dealing with abything it's just hiding it. There must be sanctions at school?loss of break, banned from trips, suspensions maybe. You can't just throw yiu r hands in the air muttering about funding and carry on as you are knowing full well that quiet kid is being assaulted unde your nose.

As a quick follow-up - was expecting me to socialise them and allowing them to carry out a GBH without consequences helpful to the boys in question.

Well, as soon as they aged into it - all were sent to Approved School etc. for various activities. And yes, one of them was up for Attempted Manslaughter the moment he aged into it. I haven't checked for a while but, it seems that if I was intended to keep them from a life of serious crime I failed.

The kids start at 4. It's surely far easier to start then rather than later on. Especially as I said earlier by yr 5/ 6 they don't give a shit they are leaving and it's not "cool" to care. And the kids are starting to tower well above their teachers and have had several years of am audience to play up for.

At 4 the mere thought if your parents finding out is enough to install the fear of god into you.

Giles but this is my point. You are assuming there is a solution that teachers just can't be bothered to use. Or can't be bothered to find out about. When in reality most will have been to every possible outlet to try for support whether it is colleagues, or forums or specialist literature.

Yes, some smaller issues can be dealt with in this way but many can't. Outside support is needed. Specialists (who cost money that isn't available), extra teaching space (which isn't available), extra staff (that aren't available), intervention programmes (that cost money for staff, space and materials which isn't available) or being placed in another setting (which have scarce places and cost money which nobody has). These are things that individual class teachers cannot control.

And of course we are sympathetic to that.

But the solution is not sticking a child who could potentially hurt anotger child next to a child who won't complain about getting hurt.that is not ok. Give them their own desk at the front or something.

The behaviour just needs to be dealt with as opposed to hidden. Because by picking that quiet child one who will carry on being kicked punched etc isn't dealing with abything it's just hiding it. There must be sanctions at school?loss of break, banned from trips, suspensions maybe. You can't just throw yiu r hands in the air muttering about funding and carry on as you are knowing full well that quiet kid is being assaulted unde your nose.

You are confusing different scenarios here. If a child is being openly assaulted in front of staff, then being placed next to a quiet child isn't really the issue is it. It is the staff's inability to protect a child from assault. Which is a different thing from being quietly kicked under the table where staff may not see it. Suggesting that children shouldn't have to speak up about it is surely the way to hide what is happening.

Schools are very limited in sanctions they have available to them. Most are ineffective against children who are persistently disruptive. Assaults generally have to be serious before suspensions are mentioned and even then there will be significant pressure from the LEA not to go down this route.

How dare you suggest I would allow a child to be assaulted and just not care. How bloody dare you. You've got no idea at all have you. I'm telling you that the solutions are not as easy as you seem to believe. You can keep blaming the teachers with their magic solutions they can't be bothered to use but it will have zero impact on anything.

Giles how do you know you have a child that won't complain unless something happens and somebody tells you that something happened and the child didn't tell you? If a child has form for this, fair enough but otherwise you'd be in the dark.

Also, there are no spare tables and no spare space.

If a child was entered in on an appeal space would have to be made wouldn't it.

And given it ends up being the same kids on the "rota " sufficient feedback from other teachers must have been given cos it's one hell of a coincidence isn't it?