'Well-behaved' girls 'socialising' 'challenging' boys at primary school

[Polynerd]

I just saw a casual mention on Twitter of the phenomenon of well-behaved girls being sat next to challenging boys to 'socialise' them. I was totally shocked because I suddenly realised that my youngest (going into Y2) has mentioned to me that this had happened to her. Is this something that happens regularly? Should I be talking to next year's teacher about this? I don't want my six-year-old daughter thinking it is her responsibility to make a load of six-year-old boys conform to classroom behavioural standards.

Erm

The whole reason the teacher has put the boy next to her is because it means quiet. Is she "speaks up" then she is not doing her job.

She is not stupid, she knows and understands exactly why he is there. I have told her that it's not fair and have spoken to the teacher.

I do not want to make this all about DD as it's upsetting me >> however, this has been an excellent example of the type of bind that adult women are all too familiar with.

Very clear expectation >> woman / girl should put up with / deal with by herself bad behaviour from male/s
Girl / woman attempts to do this (not make a fuss / deal with it herself)
Something really bad happens / or she finally tells someone
Answer >> you have handled this incorrectly. You should have told someone. Even though, you were fully aware, that you were not actually supposed to tell someone...

Children who follow your strategy are the exact ones that will not get the diffcult children put next to them.

This is a really classic object lesson in victim blaming, it's fascinating.

Still not a single word about the disruptive boy.It's ALL about the behaviour of the victim (Yr 3) and what she is doing wrong, from her actions, to her words, to her very core personality.

Genuinely, fascinating.

As with most victim blamers, I am sure that zzzz feels that she is 100% right >> but of course children who are able to speak up are not the ones who get this.

And of course one child learning a strategy just means the diffuclt child gets put with another quieter child again >>> all it does is make sure your child isn't the victim (using the terminology) but does not address the actual cause.

So many parallels with how men / women / boys / girls are treated and expectations around behaviour.

If I remember correctly, we were told to give DD this three step strategy:

1. Ignore (then if it continues)
2. Ask them to stop, loudly (then if it continues)
3. tell teacher

This helped DD a lot as she knew what to do in advance, rather than worrying what to do next.

But I agree OP, it shouldn't be happening and I'm sad to see that it still is

This was commonplace in my primary school, I was one of the "well behaved girls". I guess teachers think "shut up and do your work" comes better from a fellow student than a teacher?

For the teachers who do this and wonder where's the harm?

Leaving out a mass of stuff, it developed an adversarial relationship with a number of naughty boys and their friends to the point where a number of them ganged up to 'teach me a lesson'. Concussion, fractured skull, fractured ribs as they use metal toe-caps, bricks etc.

No school involvement or responsibility because they did it (just) off school grounds.

So, yes - lifelong consequences in a very real sense.

Good god arranfan that's horrific. You poor thing

I'm hoping that teachers that do this and don't see a problem are thinking again as so many of us have told how harmful it has been to us or our DC

BitOutOfPractice -

She is very "rules based" (another family trait!) so I think stepping it out for her like that might help.

Before I've just said if it happens tell the teacher, in a break if you don't want to in front of the class, or if not tell me and I will go and talk to them.

It's not the end of the world - she is generally happy at school - this just pisses her off and she feels it's unfair (fairness is another family trait!) which then upsets and confuses her. (Not following the rules = hard to compute!). And, I am checking in on it and going in when it's really pissing her off. She was next to him at end of last term >> I have said to wait and see if she is next to him at start of this term and if so I will raise it again.

Nothing I think these diligent kids are often very "rules based". Mine are!

I hope that three stage approach works to help her cope better and know how to handle it herself

It's balancing the fact no one should have to be putting up with crap, versus the fact that kids need to be sat somewhere. I used to change seating arrangements between lessons, alternate between "you can pick where you sit" and allocated seats, rearrange tables and everything to try to minimise it when I taught - so no one got sat next to the classroom "character" for an extended period of time because that's not fair on anyone.

Even less fair is the fucking year I had to spend sat round the corner hidden behind a filing cabinet on my own because the class teacher didn't like me (I was chatty but not by any stretch of the imagination "challenging" at primary) and had been told to be harsh on me by the head (who disliked me because my mother was a divorced working mother back when it still had a bit of a stigma attached to it). I still bear a grudge against that filing cabinet now - although I was a bit of a pain in the arse about it... "Now if you see this page I've got in my hand.... can't see it Miss, cupboard's in the way, am I allowed round the corner?!"

I was a quiet type. It took a lot for me to speak up. When I did I was villianised and then bullied by other kids. I learnt that speaking up didn't do you a lot of good, if the teacher didn't want to listen and you were ruining their easy life.

I am not in any way condoning the other child’s behaviour I am simply suggesting that the teacher, parents and child should be coming up with effective and preferably transferable strategies that can help her

Or Instead of children having to change their personality completeky the teacher could just act as if the child is assertive?

What would the teachers actually do then cos I can imagine "miss X is kicking me again" would get equally as disruptive as the behaviour itself?

Giles If the 'quiet' child is constantly shouting (or stating assertively) 'Barry stop kicking me!' the teacher hasn't got a leg to stand on if they then get told off for it or pretend it isn't happening.

Why should they have to do that though?

You shouldn't have to speak up to stop shit happening. What do teachers do then? When kids speak up? Can't they just do that anyway?

That child isn't quiet then is it!

Bloody Barry

nothing

Exactky.

What ever they do when they run out if quiet kids can't they just do to start? Problem solved

So again.Why can't they just do this stuff yo start witg?

Can I just ask.... why is it always presumed to be naughty boys?? I remember some awful girls that were badly behaved when I was at school too?!!

I mean, I stead of trying to get kids to speak up etc why can't they act as if they would if they had mone of these quiet compliant kids and focus on the disruptive child themselves.

The girls in her class who are little buggers do more underhand / quiet stuff, from what I've seen and heard. So the girls exclude, say mean stuff etc. While the boys are more loud and hitty.

Both bad behaivours in different ways.

I could advocate for myself - I had to. I was a child with a significant disability in a mainstream school.

I had to advocate for myself despite hostile teachers and students. Something that wasn't helped by assigning the flower of local sociopathology to me to help them with their reading or generally socialist them.

It didn't prevent me from being beaten to a pulp and literally unconscious. It hasn't prevented that beating from having long-term consequences.

But yes adults - feel free to offload all of that responsibility onto a young child.

Yes - I'm bitter and resentful that it's still happening and still being left up to (predominantly) girls and women to solve.

Giles do you believe teachers should be lying on the floor looking for kicking legs? What about all the unwatched hands when they are on the floor?

They might have to spend some time actually teaching. So for the most part, if children don't say something is wrong, it won't be noticed.

I'm also not sure what you think they 'should' be doing from the start? Seeing as teachers have very little power over resources, external agencies etc etc