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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Stunning, brave translady is both stunning and brave

310 replies

CaitlynsCat · 28/08/2018 19:38

www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/decisions-led-dad-become-transgender-1944624

"As well as having made the huge decision to begin transgender treatment, Martin also decided that he would not hide any longer.

He would come out as a transgender woman - as Katie - in a way which was very publicly indeed.

Since then, he has been shouting his experiences from the rooftops via social media and local radio and – by and large – has received something of a hero’s welcome."

"Martin/Katie was not only heterosexual, he wanted a child.

He cut his hair, fell in love and the couple had a child together, who is the apple of his eye.

Then in May last year, Martin went to see a clairvoyant he had met at a business networking meeting.

“I went along for a reading because I’d never been to one and I was intrigued,” she says.

What she told him was that he needed to start a new way of being and said there was a part of him that had always been there but that he was not fully in integrity with."

"after that, my gender dysphoria increased dramatically – I was so desperate to identify myself I even Googled ‘what gender is Martin Neeves?’ ”

Desperate, confused and in turmoil, he joined a support group on social media and someone suggested he should see a specialist gender counsellor.

After four successful sessions, in which he says he "hit the ground running", he felt that he was "gender fluid" ("nature doesn’t do black and white, it presents a whole spectrum.")"

"Katie now says: “After counselling and working through therapy on how to identify your gender, I now know I am 70 percent female and 30 percent male.

"It was my fear stopping me from admitting I am actually a transgender woman.”

A second visit to the clairvoyant resulted in a four-hour clarification session using deep meditation and other methods as a way of encouraging and revealing inner truth, with all the answers coming from Martin."

"She looks wonderful and feels great. Her prescribed hormones have made her skin soft, and as a naturally slightly-built person, she has an enviable figure.

She counts herself lucky as many other transgender women are naturally of a heavy build.

Brave determination has paid off, she is happier and more relaxed than ever.

Katie’s name will not be considered for the long waiting list for the actual operation to make her into a woman sexually, until she has lived full-time for a woman as a year."

OP posts:
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seafret · 29/08/2018 16:42

oh and rat if you weren't aware, 12thguleph (who?) and your reply to them where you lolled at them saying that it was 'raging at trans people or at immigrants' has been pcked up on twitter by Hetty Spoon and retweeted by HArrop s examples of hate on MN. Great stuff.

What we say here matters. but then they will always be trolling and looking for the 1%.

bellinisurge · 29/08/2018 16:43

@RatRolyPoly - what is transphobic about expecting trans women to be respectful and mindful of the wishes of women and girls who prefer women only spaces. Why should my 11 year old dd get changed in a women only changing room and expect her right to privacy and dignity be trumped by someone who wants to flash their dick around. Why should she assume that no dick she sees in the changing room will harm her. Why is she a transphobe if someone makes her feel threatened and uncomfortable?
I know you are tired of answering these questions. Indulge me.

gendercritter · 29/08/2018 16:44

Sorrygender, it's just I've hashed it out endlessly on here for the last year at least. I've heard all the arguments for harm and I've interrogated those arguments; no-one gets to "tell" me something without it standing up to scrutiny

This is quite a thing to say in light of the Challenor case, where Challenor senior dressed up as a child wearing a nappy and violently raped a child, whilst encouraging his trans child to stand for parliament and work on eroding sex segregation.

RatRolyPoly · 29/08/2018 16:46

oh and rat if you weren't aware, 12thguleph (who?) and your reply to them where you lolled at them saying that it was 'raging at trans people or at immigrants' has been pcked up on twitter by Hetty Spoon and retweeted by HArrop s examples of hate on MN. Great stuff.

Ha! That's amazing. I don't have Twitter so I wasn't aware; clearly they interpreted 12th's comment in a completely different vein to me. Thanks for letting me know, I feel kind of Twitter famous (I'm famous, right??), even though it's for a complete misunderstanding Grin

RatRolyPoly · 29/08/2018 16:48

This is quite a thing to say in light of the Challenor case, where Challenor senior dressed up as a child wearing a nappy and violently raped a child, whilst encouraging his trans child to stand for parliament and work on eroding sex segregation.

Are you implying that that specific case is something I was referring to? On what are you basing that? Baffled at how you've shoe-horned that appeal to emotions story into the conversation to be honest.

Maryzsnewaccount · 29/08/2018 16:48

Rat, you have never answered direct questions. You answer with "I've already answered that, a million times, and I'm just off out now".

Here's a few:

What is a woman?
Is a man a woman just because he says he is or does he need to have proof, and if so wha?

Should a person with XY chromosomes and a penis be allowed to enter women's sport? (I expect your answer to that one is yes if he (1) says he's a woman) and (2) has a certain level of testosterone)

In which case, should a man who doesn't say he's a woman, but has the same testosterone level as the above man, be allowed to enter the women's events.

You can't answer those. You never do.

Maryzsnewaccount · 29/08/2018 16:50

Or, let's be even simpler:

Do you have a definition of "woman" that includes me (XX but don't believe in gender and all tans people who believe they are women -but excludes all men.

By refusing to do so, you are making everything you say here entirely meaningless, because you may as well be speaking a foreign language and refusing to translate.

bellinisurge · 29/08/2018 16:51

@RatRolyPoly - you dismiss the horrific Challenor story as an appeal to emotions. But surely the self-I'd argument is an appeal to emotions.
It's nice to be fair tolerant and understanding. But put my dd at risk and I ain't so nice.

RatRolyPoly · 29/08/2018 16:52

Maryz Advanced Search is your friend. I have literally answered all of those. For at least a year. Like, specifically. What is a woman? Check. Trans women in sport? Check. Men in sport? Check. Literally every single one. I finish work at 5. I probably should have got more done...

If you want to rehash any of those by all means start a thread about them, I may or may not post, I may be arsed to link my past posts, I may have a life outside of Mumsnet; who's to say.

UnderHerEye · 29/08/2018 16:52

Wow Rat see how quickly you were sold down the river in order for the TRAs to score points against mumsnet ?

Does that not give you a tiny hint as to how little women actually matter to them? Even women who agree with them are expendable if it’s for the greater good....

RatRolyPoly · 29/08/2018 16:52

Do you have a definition of "woman" that includes me (XX but don't believe in gender and all tans people who believe they are women -but excludes all men.

Yes I do. Pretty sure you posted on the thread I posited it on. You disagreed with me. Obviously.

RatRolyPoly · 29/08/2018 16:55

Wow Rat see how quickly you were sold down the river in order for the TRAs to score points against mumsnet ?

I don't know any TRAs. Never met one. If you're under the impression that this means something more to me than mild hilarity, this person none of them know on a social media platform I don't even use, you should probably have a think about whether or not the impetus you put on Twitter is proportionate...

Maryzsnewaccount · 29/08/2018 16:55

We've had this conversation many times Rat.

As you very well know, you have never answered except with "I've answered that before I can't be bothered again".

And iirc, your definitions so far have either been circular, used the word "identify" or excluded lots of women (the XX sort).

Obviously if you can find a previous answer, I would love to see it but I'm not holding my breath

RatRolyPoly · 29/08/2018 16:56

Obviously if you can find a previous answer, I would love to see it but I'm not holding my breath

Advanced. Search.

You know how to use a keyboard, I'm not your slave. You press the tappy tappy bits with those pudgey pads at the end of your fingers.

RatRolyPoly · 29/08/2018 16:58

Home time - ta ra!

Maryzsnewaccount · 29/08/2018 16:59

AS doesn't give me an answer that you've never given, unfortunately - as you very well know.

How predictable Hmm

Happityhap · 29/08/2018 17:00

Toodleoo, Rat.
So you only engage with social media during time when you are being paid supposedly to work?

UnderHerEye · 29/08/2018 17:01

But don’t you think it is interesting how what you said was taken out of context to make you look bad to suit the TRA agenda?

Genuinely interested what you think to that

gendercritter · 29/08/2018 17:03

Baffled at how you've shoe-horned thatappeal to emotionsstory into the conversation to be honest.

That story is right at the heart of this entire conversation. It is relevent to every trans discussion. And appeal to emotions? Our safety, our comfort, our privacy don't matter, right? Pfft. Who cares?

jellyfrizz · 29/08/2018 17:17

Has this particular trans woman done something specific to offend your feminist principles?

Yes, promoting the idea that male-bodied people can be women. That is not part of my feminist principles.

^^This. And the pushing of gender stereotypes and reinforcing the notion that men and women think differently. It is damaging to women and girls (and men and boys).

TheWomaninTheSturdyPajamas · 29/08/2018 17:24

Lots of these "awards" are just marketing platforms and one pays to be entered for nominations. So not necessarily a case of "aww, shucks, an award for little ol me?

bitheby · 29/08/2018 17:32

Can I just say that this article is APPALLINGLY written and really offends me on that basis alone. I might post on the content another time but seems there's a bunfight going on and I'll let you all carry on.

Pigeonpost · 29/08/2018 17:42

70% female and 30% male?!? That's hilarious.

MipMipMip · 29/08/2018 18:19

Seafret

Stunning, brave translady is both stunning and brave
MipMipMip · 29/08/2018 18:20

And how it was used.

Stunning, brave translady is both stunning and brave
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