Stunning, brave translady is both stunning and brave

[CaitlynsCat]

www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/decisions-led-dad-become-transgender-1944624

"As well as having made the huge decision to begin transgender treatment, Martin also decided that he would not hide any longer.

He would come out as a transgender woman - as Katie - in a way which was very publicly indeed.

Since then, he has been shouting his experiences from the rooftops via social media and local radio and – by and large – has received something of a hero’s welcome."

"Martin/Katie was not only heterosexual, he wanted a child.

He cut his hair, fell in love and the couple had a child together, who is the apple of his eye.

Then in May last year, Martin went to see a clairvoyant he had met at a business networking meeting.

“I went along for a reading because I’d never been to one and I was intrigued,” she says.

What she told him was that he needed to start a new way of being and said there was a part of him that had always been there but that he was not fully in integrity with."

"after that, my gender dysphoria increased dramatically – I was so desperate to identify myself I even Googled ‘what gender is Martin Neeves?’ ”

Desperate, confused and in turmoil, he joined a support group on social media and someone suggested he should see a specialist gender counsellor.

After four successful sessions, in which he says he "hit the ground running", he felt that he was "gender fluid" ("nature doesn’t do black and white, it presents a whole spectrum.")"

"Katie now says: “After counselling and working through therapy on how to identify your gender, I now know I am 70 percent female and 30 percent male.

"It was my fear stopping me from admitting I am actually a transgender woman.”

A second visit to the clairvoyant resulted in a four-hour clarification session using deep meditation and other methods as a way of encouraging and revealing inner truth, with all the answers coming from Martin."

"She looks wonderful and feels great. Her prescribed hormones have made her skin soft, and as a naturally slightly-built person, she has an enviable figure.

She counts herself lucky as many other transgender women are naturally of a heavy build.

Brave determination has paid off, she is happier and more relaxed than ever.

Katie’s name will not be considered for the long waiting list for the actual operation to make her into a woman sexually, until she has lived full-time for a woman as a year."

I've decided that I want to be stunning and brave.

I haven't actually done anything but I did recently change the pump in the loo, and on dress down Fridays usually wear jeans and a tshirt.

Cis women can need maternity pay/return to work, Transwomen not so much.

But if they are one and the same in the law...you seriously believe no one will use that?

The award thing does have a tangible effect on society though (or possibly is reflective of a bad thing in society).

When someone like Pips Bunce or this Katie person, neither of whom identify full time or 100% as women, are given a women's award. It's not just that they don't have the insight to refuse it (which would be the honourable thing to do) it's the structure surrounding it.

Somewhere out there, the teams at the Financial Times Top 50 Women In Business, and the East Midlands Women's Awards, decided to give an award to a male who doesn't even regard themselves as a woman all the time.

In doing that, those teams are saying either

a) We can't find enough women worthy of this award (which is misogynist)

or

b) We think these awards exist not to redress the heavily tilted playing field and to recognise that women, having been socialised as girls and then living as women with the associated care / household / discrimination burdens, struggle to access a fair bite at the cherry, but rather as a reward for being feminine - if you like, an unfair reward simply for being a woman (#whenisinternationalmensday). Which is even more misogynistic, it's an outright MRA position.

If Katie or Pips had a measure of empathy with women, rather than just identification as them (sometimes / 70%) they would understand that accepting the award does cause harm, because it reflects and /or contributes to misogyny.

(Just an aside, I keep seeing this pattern)

Someone "you are all mean".
Reply: but what about this?
Someone: "par answer, repeat you are all mean"
Reply: more questions/examples.
Someone: disappears for an hour/no reply to points, reappears often with vague reference to their own struggles, and repeats from top.

birdbandit, I mean this in the most positive sense, I see you and I hear your perspective here on the people who do actually suffer because of the kind of behaviour mentioned in the OP, and the fire it gives your responses. All the shifting optics away from actual victims to the braveandstunning doesn't dull the blade of your words. You keep on xx

You are so right sweetie pie. My bad as they say.

If that person goes about their life - in toilets, changing rooms, wherever they're permitted - in a respectful, law abiding and polite fashion they have not victimised anyone (as is the case with voyeurism, for example).

In toilets, changing rooms, hospital wards there is opportunity for voyeurism.

By accepting 'womens' awards, they are depriving female women.

By male-bodied people taking part in girls' and women's sport, they are making it almost impossible for females to achieve anything in sport, and may be exposing females to physical injury.

So you think someone's trangenderism is a fetish. If that person goes about their life - in toilets, changing rooms, wherever they're permitted - in a respectful, law abiding and polite fashion they have not victimised anyone (as is the case with voyeurism, for example). Nor have they haven't behaved inappropriately for their own sexual thrills

I don't believe all transgenderism is about fetishes, no. I believe some individuals experience extreme distress at their sexed bodies. I am generalising but they tend to live quietly. I don't believe many would accept awards meant for women.

Equally though, I don't believe any fetish is as simple as you are stating. As a 7 year old child I believe I narrowly escaped being assaulted by my babysitter's boyfriend who she sneaked into the house. I can't ever prove anything with regards that but as a 7 year old with no knowledge of sex, my hackles were raised and I knew instinctively this man was a threat in some very serious way. He was pushing to take me to bed on my own and looking at me in a certain way.

I'm trying in a long winded way that females can sense threat at all ages. There is a difference between the transsexual living quietly and the AGP male staring at one, plastered in make up and wearing provocative (stereotypical) female clothing. Can you prove anything with regards their behaviour? No. Women negotiate these silent threats every day at worst and the law doesn't care. It is obvious when someone is involving you in their fetish. A lot of women have a problem with that, including me. It does me harm. It knocks confidence in how safe one is and how valued one is by society. Very little needs to be done for a woman to feel that way.

Rat, there are a fair few people around who are having a shit time at the moment, and my sympathy goes to all of them, including you, so I too hope you are ok.

However, having a hard time doesn't excuse dismissing other people's concerns, or alluding to them being bigoted etc etc etc. I can't claim that the fact that I'm having a shite time irl gives me the green card to repeatedly minimise other people's issues, no matter how unimportant they think they are.

You say:

This idea of "flaunting a fetish". The thing with involving someone in your fetish against their consent is that that is only actually prohibited - or even policeable - when the perpetrator is actually doing something outside of the social norm, or the victim is caused tangible harm - Top Shop Travis is a good example of forcing other people to be involved in a fetish. As is Jess Bradley. As is any person with a penis who exposes it in a (up until very recently) female space.

The fact that the entire trans community, and you (it appears) think that they are ok to do this and anyone who objects is a bigot means that I don't have any respect for the feelings of those people. They (and you) don't care about my feelings, or about the many women and girls who might be upset.

Amazing person! Able to win a woman's award when identifying as a woman p/t.

When Martyn lives his fetish full time come September 1st, the world of women's awards will be at their feet, watch out Bruce!

And a good example is the AGP male going into a lingerie shop, trying on undies then giving a young, more vulnerable assustant a knowing wink.

Have they committed a crime? No.

Have they intimidated that women and asserted their dominance over her and involved her in their fetish? Yes. It is a small amount of harm but the small things build over time. These men like putting women in their place. They are free to crack on, too

As for sport - including men in women's sport hurts many people and will hurt many more if it continues. Hurt them both physically and in other ways - financially, socially, psychologically, all sorts of ways.

Why should thousands of women be disadvantaged to avoid hurting a few men's feelings?

However, having a hard time doesn't excuse dismissing other people's concerns, or alluding to them being bigoted etc etc etc. I can't claim that the fact that I'm having a shite time irl gives me the green card to repeatedly minimise other people's issues, no matter how unimportant they think they are.

Oh don't be silly, you say I do all those things all the time anyway, whether I'm having a shit time or not! I don't think it gives me a green card, I don't think I do it.

I care about women and girls, obviously I do, I just believe a different course of action is in our/their best interests than the one you're determined to get me to adhere to. I don't think your position is best for women and girls. I don't. I think mine is. Of course I do, or I wouldn't hold it.

But hey ho, no surprise we disagree.

Rat you have said on other threads that you were a lap dancing, is that right? So maybe fundamentally you have a very different idea about what is right for women and girls.

*dancer

I don't think your position is best for women and girls. I don't. I think mine is. Of course I do, or I wouldn't hold it.

Just to check - are you saying that allowing any person with a penis into women's spaces, sports, girls' sports, school changing rooms and showers, etc - is "best for women and girls"?

Rat you have said on other threads that you were a lap dancing, is that right? So maybe fundamentally you have a very different idea about what is right for women and girls.

That is right. I was much younger then. I don't think you should infer too much about my thoughts about women and girls into that to be honest, it was under quite extraordinary circumstances. It always is with any woman working in the sex industry.

Just to check - are you saying that allowing any person with a penis into women's spaces, sports, girls' sports, school changing rooms and showers, etc - is "best for women and girls"?

Hahahahahaha, nice try, no.

Ok fair enough. Your position just baffles me tbh. Women are telling you how it does harm them or will harm them and you can't see it.

It is just this Gaslighting that rather than say these men are expanding the idea of what men can wear and do we are forced to accept that dressing in stereotypical women’s clothes, wearing a wig and partaking in certain behaviour makes you a woman.

It is because we are socialized to be so understanding and kind that women have put up with and been put upon by this narrative. Apparently it is something we are not allowed to question otherwise we are “mean” and “phobic”.

I think it’s very narcissistic behaviour to dress differently, to unilaterally decide to redefine my marriage and family and go to the newspapers about it expecting adulation. It is so belittling of women’s everyday lives and struggles which come down to biology.

This man is also switching back and forth between presenting in a feminine manner and a masculine manner and that alone is supposed to define him being “male”or “female”. Such superficial definitions of what it means to be a man or a woman are offensive.

His descriptions of seeing the clairvoyant and his personal history just read as someone very self absorbed, you have to emphasize with his wife and children when he is some invested in his personal appearance and identity to their detriment.

RatRolyPoly

Not a "try" at all - what is your view of what is "best for women and girls", therefore?

rat so when THE LAW said that there was no such thing as rape in marriage that was right and ok was it?

Society should make the law - too often it is just men.

Ah, I see, so these awards are not for women who having struggled to overcome their oppression and disadvantage and suceed in business, it is fo0 those people who have managed to be seen to suceed at being feminine whilst being in business.

OH MY FUCKING GOD... I just went to the East Midlands Women's Awards to verify some info and this is their front page photograph - just a woman's body (presumably) in slim fitting clothes but not even showing her face. So men-women and faceless women now. Great

It is all the better to hide the men-women's male faces I presume

Women are telling you how it does harm them or will harm them and you can't see it.

Sorry gender, it's just I've hashed it out endlessly on here for the last year at least. I've heard all the arguments for harm and I've interrogated those arguments; no-one gets to "tell" me something without it standing up to scrutiny; and the place I've come out at is that there are better ways to achieve the same protections, some of the fears are overblown or irrelevant, and mostly that the people we could feasibly hold to account to protect women and girls are not the individual trans people who come in for so much stick on here.

I'm afraid I don't really have time to outline in depth my position on every single aspect of the debate, but most of it is one past thread or another. The very first petition thread probably covers self-ID pretty comprehensively. The rest, I'm afraid, is all over the shop. Perhaps I'll stick around after today and hash it out some more.

It is interesting that we are having the discussion about how does this harm women and girls on the same day that a report comes out about the large number of girls self harming, part of which is put down to the stereotyping of gender roles.

By saying that women have nice figures, soft skin and wear nice clothes you are reinforcing those gender roles.